1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

getting frustrated with Listbuilding for 400pts tournament

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by prophet of doom, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    438
    getting back to Corregidor... now I got some valid ideas involving the mobile brigadas. I will run them in both lists, one with iguana and mcmurrough, another one with intruders and gecko. my training game basically had the effect to learn what not to use.
     
    xagroth and loricus like this.
  2. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    I'd bet Iguana+McMurrough will be pretty great those all compliment each other.
     
  3. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    1,083
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    There's a little bit of a difference between 'you can't run a TAG' and 'you literally can't build a 1 group 400 point list ever'. Also considering that the fact that even at 400, 500, or even 1000 points, Ariadna can't run a TAG outside of FRRM or soldiers of fortune, not having enough points(in the nomads case it's SWC to have an LT as well) to take a TAG isn't really going to gain much sympathy from us ateks...

    There are tools to minimise the problem already in ITS 9, using soldiers of fortune to bring the Anaconda in as a ringer is the only one that's right there on the page, but we also have "incompatible" mods, making LI incompatible with a 400 point limit would be simple, but fairly boring. The other way is to play a half combat group extra for every 150 points or part thereof over 300, or even just a half group for every 150 points or part of 150 along the lines of SWC.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  4. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    612
    There are plenty of ways to overcome any problem. I just don`t see why every other player should be denied their fun games because one faction has problems to compose a list for one particular event. It`s like deny every player to drink beer during play because some players are allergic to alcohol.

    But ok, you are right, each event that discriminate in particular Ariadna should not be started. Better not play at all than tolerate some discrimination. Ariadna successfully whitknighted at Nomads subforum. Great job.
     
  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    I normally agree but it is unreasonable to have some players with a 50 point handicap or switch faction. Make some sort of exception if you're going to organize with such extreme rules.
     
    Robock and cazboab like this.
  6. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    612
    Agree 100%. In my local group we just agree that this fun format is not for all factions and just switch to other. It`s much more pleasant to lend miniatures and give brand new experience than deny it for everybody.

    I think we need another one of this. I have to field 4 Gekko and Iguana in same list))
     
  7. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    1,083
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    That might be why I suggested a whole bunch of ways to fix it, so all factions can actually be included.
     
  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,420
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    Also 1 hacker who is the Lt in a list filled with repeaters... too risky, I'd say.

    I say K1 weapons against that... shiny use for Teucer! XD
    And yeah: the greeks have no TAG, Hassassin has no TAG, and all of Ariadna but for the french (who are not updated to the current "haris for all" meta...) have no TAG... Well ISS has no TAG either, but at least they have little trouble to get at 400 points.

    I like that one a lot, one group and a half if the game goes to 400 points

    Erh... I wouldn't run 4 servant bots on a single medic, frankly, and I wouldn't really bother repairing the Iguana: as its rules are, 2 hits means pilot gets launched, and that means you have to repair the Iguana every time it takes a hit... with a 25% chance (if you have a clockmaker...) of being you the one breking your own TAG!!!!
     
  9. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    553
    In this context, I actually think it might not be that risky. If they have a killer hacker against that list it'll probably try to go through a moran, so it eats a CK to have a little better than a 50/50 chance to wound an interventor? Certainly a hail mary play if you are only working with 10 orders.
     
  10. Kwisatz Haderach

    Kwisatz Haderach Zelenograd Shasvastii
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    386
    I would try something like this.
    You have 4 resilient models, 2 of them are area denial and 2 are great gunfighters. You have TO AHD, sneaky specialist and HI/TAG stopper. You have HD+ to deal with other stuff. Also you have Zoe and PiWell - always a great combo. And you have 1 of the scariest CC unit in the game with eclipse smoke grenades.

    [​IMG] Nomads - Untitled Roster (400/400 | 7/8)

    Group #1 | 10 Models | [​IMG] 9 [​IMG] 1 [​IMG] 1

    [​IMG] Kriza Borac HMG | HMG, Heavy Pistol / CCW (54)
    [​IMG] Taskmaster Red Fury | TinBot A (Deflector L1), Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas, Heavy Pistol / DA CCW (53)
    [​IMG] Taskmaster Lieutenant | TinBot A (Deflector L1), Lieutenant, Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas, Heavy Pistol / DA CCW (53)
    [​IMG] Szalamandra HMC | HMC, Heavy Flamethrower (90)
    [​IMG] Spektr Hacker | Assault Hacking Device, Combi Rifle, Pistol / Knife (36)
    [​IMG] Chimera Combi | Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW (20)
    [​IMG] Pupnik DA CCW | DA CCW (1)
    [​IMG] Pupnik DA CCW | DA CCW (1)
    [​IMG] Pupnik DA CCW | DA CCW (1)
    [​IMG] Interventor Combi Panda | Hacking Device Plus, Combi Rifle, FastPanda, Pistol / Knife (27)
    [​IMG] Zoe Combi | Combi Rifle, D-Charges, Pistol / Knife (28)
    [​IMG] Π-Well | Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse (19)
    [​IMG] Daktari Doctor | Combi Rifle, Pistol / Knife (14)
    [​IMG] Zondbot Servant | Electric Pulse (3)

    [​IMG] Open in MayaNet
     
    inane.imp, sarf and prophet of doom like this.
  11. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    [​IMG] Nomads
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] BRAN DO CASTRO Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42)
    [​IMG] KRIZA BORAC HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)
    [​IMG] REVEREND MOIRA MULTI Rifle + E/M Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Shock CCW. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
    [​IMG] TASKMASTER Lieutenant Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 53)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZOE & PI-WELL . (0 | 47)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] ZOE (Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Stop!) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] PI-WELL Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    8 SWC | 400 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I'd bring some E/M stuff.
     
  12. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    438
    @Kwisatz Haderach : that looks like a pretty angry list!

    Yes, running a 400 pts LI tournament is excluding all players who exclusively play Ariadna. However, most seasoned players have models for at least two factions. Even I strayed away from Ariadna at some point. I would not run such a tournament as TO, but I don't think it is discriminating to a degree that I feel I should boycott it.
     
    sarf likes this.
  13. BloodRose

    BloodRose Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    21
    The four bots are just to fill the points.
    The Tomcat is there as a specialist silly, not to repair the TAG. He provides an AD combirifle with D charges, and if need be he can choose to repair the TAG if he wants too.
     
    loricus likes this.
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,420
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    You are assuming that the enemy will try to get the Interventor in the first order, which is kinda... surreal ^^U. It is the only possible Lt in the whole list, so I wouldn't rule out to make a move + move with a servitor or other sacrificial piece to clear the way to a Moran and use its repeater.

    In that regard, I would go with a Hellcat for the chance of needing a trooper in a precise place, instead of having to enter from a side. Also, since the missions have not been told (just that they are killy-killy) we need to account for the fact that there might give points to the enemy if we get casualties from specialist troops. My point is, essentially, that when playing Limited Insertion the needs are for capable troops that give as many options as possible, and in that regard a Hellcat is very interesting.
    Mind you, I would expect the enemy to deploy a rambo AD troop to kill as many soft targets as possible, and/or to damage a TAG. I know I've done it succesfully with a BSG Fraacta in the past (and she had only 5 orders, but took 4 of the enemy's and damaged the Lt TAG...), specially from factions with access to Strategos and/or CoC (Haqquislam, YJ, Aleph/greeks, CA/Morat...)

    Also I wouldn't rule out Hunting party, in which case we need an engineer with servitors, but all over the place... Zoe gets very interesting in those situations, thanks to being a hacker too...
     
  15. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    553
    I don't think I'd call that surreal but you have a fair point. I've actually given up trying to play Lt mind games for the most part since I think in almost all cases, the interventor makes the best use of a Lt order.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  16. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    438
    I will report back after the tournament. Let's see what will happen. I am usually not very good at these things.
     
  17. CalmEyE

    CalmEyE Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    17
    [​IMG] Ariadna
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] CALEDONIAN MORMAER Lieutenant AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] CALEDONIAN MORMAER AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] UNKNOWN RANGER (Specialist Operative) Molotok / Heavy Pistol, T2 CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 47)
    [​IMG] VETERAN KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] VETERAN KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] ARMAND (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 45)
    [​IMG] VAN ZANT (Executive Order) AP Rifle / Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Mimetism, AD: Parachutist) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Mimetism, AD: Parachutist) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] WULVER Mk12, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 37)

    7 SWC | 396 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    ---

    [​IMG] Ariadna
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] VAN ZANT (Executive Order) AP Rifle / Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] UNKNOWN RANGER (Specialist Operative) Molotok / Heavy Pistol, T2 CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 47)
    [​IMG] ARMAND (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 45)
    [​IMG] VETERAN KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] VETERAN KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] CALEDONIAN MORMAER Lieutenant AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] DEVIL DOG Heavy Shotgun, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP CCW. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] K-9 ANTIPODE AP CCW. (7)
    [​IMG] CALEDONIAN MORMAER (X Visor) T2 Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)

    8 SWC | 399 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Seems doable to me?

    ----

    Best of luck to you! The best preparation you can make is to bring a positive attitude! Then it doesn't matter how your games go!
     
    prophet of doom likes this.
  18. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    438

    Very interesting. I was convinced that Ariadna is not an option based on the fact that only very few troopers are above the 40 points mark. It would be fun to play such lists just to be the only Ariadna player of the event. However, my mind is already set on Corregidor. I also don't own Armand and the Unknown Ranger. I think Armand is a bit key to your lists. Now that I have seen your lists, I am convinced that there are other, more potent Ariadna lists possible.
     
  19. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    1,083
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    @CalmEyE good effort but aside from both lists that almost make it being very similar they both have 10 points of chaff added by selecting the most expensive rather than the most useful profile. Veteran Kazaks in a mission with no specialist requirement, most likely the T2 rifle is the go-to. Van Zant Executive Order is a great opportunity to use the veteran Kazaks though, since he'll get killed and leave you in loss of lieutenant that's not a certainty but the EO version is mainly to use the LT order in his first appearance turn 3 to fuel his murderous rampage. leaving AD/HD troops off the table in limited insertion isn't generally a good idea. That brings us to Captain Ariadna who, even leaving aside my own distaste for the Molotok's SWC cost, is a pretty bloated way to burn points in either profile, and with EO Van Zant, you really want to have chain of command to avoid LOL. Finally we come to Armand. There's nothing particularly objectionable in and of himself, but when the blackjack is available with a T2 rifle he might be the less obvious choice.

    Even if we accept those compromises it's still two nearly identical lists based primarily on spending points, and the main issue is that none of the sectorials can get much over 380... Throw in soldiers of fortune though, and all that goes away, add an extra 5 trooper group(even if it comes at an SWC charge) Ariadna would probably be the best option for 400 point LI, and maybe this is a different conversation after Gencon if TAK has a couple of new HI units or characters that plug the gaps...
     
  20. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    192
    After the backstab in last year's event Ariadna is taking over our forum now? Since the OP is going and OK with it, there surely there has to be a better place to discuss the ethics in having a 400 pts LI tournament.

    Back on topic, the best way to kill an obvious ARM 1, BTS 9, Interventor LT is not hacking. If you're really concerned about it, you can always Cybermask with your LT order. Assassination in general is not a great move in LI, when losing your KHD in the attempt also means loosing 10% of your order pool. One turn of LoL can mitigated, particularly early in the game when you have most or all your Command Tokens.
     
    #40 wellspokenman, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    sarf and cazboab like this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation