I can still click on her in army infinity and including her keeps the army legal. I would be pissed off if she got removed because i bought the model based on looks and put effort into painting it. On the battlefield, she disappointed at first but then played out to be ok once i got used to her. I don't think Kusanagi s superb as she is right now but still usable. I don't want to see her removed for years.
But it's like for two months or so... Okay, we don't know dates, but we know it's not even for entirely of the remaining ITS season.
Maybe a small buff, but meh? she's fine. You get multiple lists in an event, don't build them both the same and you're fine. If you're up against something like Steel Phalanx, or expect a ton of MSV 2, take the riot girls or whatever else you brought in that matchup, if your opponent isn't playing something with access to a lot of MSV 2 or something similar, then the moiras are great and cass does fine. Of course it's match-up dependent, that's how the game works. You get plenty of information in time to make the correct choice at an event. If you're playing PUGs and want to have a good game, discuss with your opponent that kind of thing to make sure you both enjoy it. Edited to not confuse people later ;P thanks @Tom McTrouble
Just FYI, you can't make a list choice after seeing someone's list in tournament, just after you know what faction or sectorial they are playing.
The only problem with this is that between the Riot Grrls and the Moiras the Grrls are outright better in every situation. The Grrls are faster, can take twice the wounds each before going out of action, are better at shooting, have MSV1 to deal with camo units, can take their own onboard tinbot to prevent hackers and can deal with just about every threat at a considerable range or up close. They can do aggression and defence easily, and are (quite laughably) cheaper than the Moiras. The only advantages the Moiras have is the ODD, which is okay, and the ability to bring an onboard doctor with the link.... Who is ironically a better fighter than the Moiras! The ODD is nice, but I feel it is overpriced on the Moiras, who are having to compete with a lot of things whom all do a similar job. On the few times I have run the Moiras+Kusanagi+Healer link it has never done very well, and every time the Grrls would have been a lot more effective. Of course I have run Kusanagi on her own, but every time she has taken to the field she has underperformed heavily, especially when you consider she costs so many points to bring. She always seems to go down to a couple of hits, even from combirifles, and plasma or other BTS hitting weaponry basically invalidates her existence. Template weapons murder her, and nanopulsars are her bane. In all honesty, every time I have used her she has done nothing that a cheaper model could not have done better, and I would have been better off bringing a plethora of other units in her place. Perhaps it is just me but she feels too weak. And it is a pity because I love her background.
They do have better long range options than the grrls and access to templates with Kusanagi and the healer, but apart from that I agree. Having access to a cheaper filler with a dtw (like the 16 pt chain rifle myrm) would help bring the cost down and be a good addition imo, but on the whole I think they need a real overhaul.
I am not sure why in a game with FtF system a model that has 1 point better BS but lacks -6 MOD to opponent's roll is repeatedly called "better at shooting" even though for most practical purposes they are 5 points of FtF winning strength below. The only units Grrls are consistently better at winning FtF shootings against are those that either have MVS2 or combine MSV1 and optical mods (thus "equalizing" Moiras with Grrls by 6 points of effective BS or more): Nisses, Bagh Maris, Intruders, Konstantinos... That is not to say that other things are in Moiras favour or anything, but still.
The problem honestly isn't that Moiras are bad (they're not) it's just Grrls are sooo good. Reduce Grrls to BS12, increase their Phys to 14. Voila balanced with Moiras.
I never find myself using her anyway. Way too costly to give gibbed by shock. I also am allergic to expensive link teams as order saturation is the only way to win in my meta(s). So, IMO: nothing of value was lost with her
15 orders is the standard, or higher. Maxed out AVA on cheap 8 point bots, a full link made with a dire foes and the basic mooks, and as much of your flavor of "cheese" (spetsnaz hmg, Kriza, etc), sprinkled with camo infiltrator specialists and warbands (Yuan yuans are my favorite, personally). If you don't have some/most of those, you seem to never get into the upper 50% at events. So basically Polish style, to use Infinity slang :P
Business as usual it seems. Guess it's that time when we're back to the topic of low order count competitiveness again...
Pretty much. I have made a personal goal of playing single combat group lists in casuals/friendlies but tourney prep and toruneys themselves may as well be a completely different game, involving 17 orders, and sticking enemy melee attackers to walls, thus wholly negating them :P
Pretty much all of this. Like, if they don't have MSV2, a 5 point swing is so huge. Like, BS 12 Moira vs BS 13 let's say each is in cover, and at the +3 range band so it's a wash. Throw in ODD and Chamo on the BS 13 guy. Moira hitting on BS 9 vs other guy hitting on BS 7? I'd take that. Side Note, I believe strongly that both are super viable and someone shouldn't give up on a model just because it might be suboptimal, because odds are the degree to which it is "suboptimal" is so small that it is almost negligible in the grand scheme of things. In the end just play what you want
The problem is that opponents won’t place themselves in situations where you can take full advantage of that swing. And with a unit that is slow, vulnerable to just about everything and expensive, it’s just too easy to outmanouver them for my taste. Would be interesting to see the stats on how many Bakunin lists contain a full moira link.
Kusanagi is already great. She doesn't need a buff. She's BS 14 with ODD and NWI, and she can go in a Haris that can put out White Noise Zones. If you can't make that work then that's all on you. Moiras are also great. The Moira MSR is a staple in my Bakunin lists, she's very strong.
Are you sure about that? Kusanagi costs as much as a high-end ARM 5 HI unit, and Moiras are not far behind her. Both are vulnerable, slow, and suffer from having a laughable 0 BTS.
