Yu Jing Fluff - Perception, Reality, Desire

Would it have been better if the JSA as a whole was portrayed as wanting to split away despite not being realistic?

 

@Death I suggest you read up a bit more on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Military_Classics as a number deal with counter insurgencies and the best approach to situations like this. They are studied by many today and that's before you have the foundation of Yu Jing which bases the majority of its philosophy and governance on these and related texts.

 

@Death The JSA and Japanese population as a whole WERE apparently wanting to split. That is the reality, which culminated in Uprising. If that is unrealistic then this whole thing is unrealistic. If it isn't then how would portraying that reality be unrealistic?

 

I think Yu Jing players are disappointed for some reasonable points:
1-We know You Jing is a ruthless faction, and sometimes can use immoral ways to success. But it doesn't mean our ISS and military are uncontrollable and self-destructive. I can accept the CG shooted that girl, if she was a Kuge terrorist, and media used the fact to discredit YJ and ISS. But talk and act in front of cameras like a angry childish teenager, no (perhaps a discredit mounting?).
2-the strong possibility about lossing players who will play for YJ in the closers campaigns.
3- lossing troops for generic and lossing an entire sectorial, without giving us another one to supersede it soon.

And finally perhaps the most feared for us, the higher possibility about the continuation of that fluff line, without listen the Yu Jing Community. Of course they don't have to do everything we want, but trying to keep the players without making us to piss out.

 

proof in fluff please

 

Think you need to delve into the fluff more mate.

N1 rulebook P34 "A hostile attitude from the Party towards the Japanese is due to the separatist leanings of the Japanese and their constant negative and subversive attitude towards Yu Jing's government".

The seeds of the secession were right there from the get-go.

 

So i guess using tanks against students, sending thousands of Uighurs to re-education camps, forbidding religious expression and trying to eradicate a culture are brilliant strategies that will prevent any sort of civil unrest? Try looking how china acts in Xinjiang and Tibet. Also I believe there has never been a war where war crimes and atrocities have not been committed so why should Yu Jing get a pass it would just make the fluff more unrealistic and it would not if the world of Infinity.

I totally undersand not wanting our faction to be one dimensional villains but Yu Jing has always (in my mind) been more dark grey than the some of the other factions.

 

I was waiting for someone to point this out.

As for Yu Jing needing a victory, I think it would be cool if the Invincible Army was released with a new campaign featuring Yu Jing kicking ass. I'll probably end up collecting IA because I love HI focused Sectorals.

 

It wouldn't hurt for folks to remember, in the fluff at least, that Yu Jing has had significant victories in the Oberhaus... getting their claim recognized and approved on Svalarheima, keep PanO from being able to annex Dawn, keeping Paradiso open for all to colonize and getting a lot themselves... in addition to multiple battlefield successes in the three phases of the Neocolonial War (the Battle of the Dividing Line, the Water Lily Offensive, etc.).

 

I get the feeling some want the opposite. For Pano to be the hate-sink and Yu Jing to be heroic. I don't think Yu Jing has been Flanderized just because its had two recent set backs. Wotan and JSA split.

 

@A Mão Esquerda Yu Jing has definitely had successes, even stuff like the Qingdao Report or the massive changes to PanO intelligence which shaped the current Hexahedron. I think the concern is more about the trending direction... those victories appeared interspersed with PanO successes, with stalemates, a good balance where everyone could see their faction both outmaneuvered and triumphant. The worry over 'Flanderization' is a view that this a true trend, that the absence of Yu Jing successes shows the time of the events you cite has passed.

There is room to hope it isn't, the arrival of the Invincibles and the RPG book are absolutely real chances for gains and breaking-evens that will restore the balance. But that is only a possibility, not a certainty, which has left me worried and a number of other Yu Jing players justifiably pessimistic in outlook.

@gorin Uprising, pp.all-of-them, it seems, at least based on the reviews so far.

 

Where do you get that feeling? @everyone-in-this-thread, does ANYONE want that?

 

This is not a fair representation of me or anyone arguing against the premise that YJ has fallen to cartoon villain status. I think your expectation of "shades of gray" is that the subject needs to have darker representations balanced with lighter portrayals is wrong. The gray is not some uniform color applied across the narrative - rather, it's marbled across it.

This story focuses on the dark parts of YJ. You will not see the light parts for some comparative nuance. *That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.* The story is told from the perspective of an oppressed people breaking free from a cruel master. They're not gonna care about the positive aspects of Imperial order ("what have the Romans ever done for us?"-"sanitation?").

Go ahead and be upset that this book didn't deliver what you wanted. Go ahead and voice your concerns for the faction's narrative path and your wishes for its future. And if you don't like our attempts to reassure you then go ahead and disregard them. But please at least consider what we're actually saying and not the simplified incorrect arguments you attribute to us.

 

The general overreaction to Yu Jing facing some setbacks and the dislike of Pano among Yu Jing players. If it was Pano that was facing setbacks and being shown in a negative light, I doubt Yu Jing players would be upset.

 

Speaking strictly fro myself here... but i just don't see that as happening, as i said Yu Jing has always had more of the darker grey than the lighter. ISS is the darker half so of cause ant story involving them are going to be dark. But there is plenty of light too We have heard the those guilty of warcrimes are being punished and scattered in the fluff there are many examples of Yu Jing being heroic from the sacrifices of the Zuyong Regiment to stabilize the third Paradiso front and the defence of the Biguan Airdrome and Yu Jing victories are also present in the fluff. All in all I think that that CB do good job of showing the both the good and the bad of each faction how ever in some faction the "bad" (or morally grey areas) is more visable.

 

All of it is a story. The bright aspects don't exist unless they are shown.

That's a tautology. Yu Jing players wouldn't be upset that something bad happened to their forces if nothing bad happened to their forces.

 

So because you're paranoid about what might happen to PanO you're ok with Yu Jing being portrayed as monstrous?

 

Also, anecdotal though it may be, I know personally I'd be upset if PanO got hit with a highly negative portrayal... as much as challenging and mocking the Hyperpower, trying to supplant it, etc, are great fun in-character, making PanO inept or black instead of gray is bad for Infinity as a whole, I'd certainly be unhappy about it. It isn't my faction, so maybe I couldn't keep up the same energy for weeks and weeks, but I'd be there. Much as we have some PanO players in this thread and others offering critique not because its their faction directly affected but because they recognize the implications for the wider game.

 

I dont think Yu Jing is being betrayed as monstrous in the first place. Once I get that long awaited Invincible army, I'm going to enjoy some IA vs JSA grudge matches. I probably could start collecting some Yu Jing now.

Though I keep going back in forth on whether I want IA or JSA. If I had the money I'd probably do both. Though Invincible army is more my style than JSA. I use to dislike the Yu Jing minatures but the newer scuplts are a lot better and have grown on me. I want the IA because I like the idea of a mass HI sectorial. The IA will likely end up the best at mass HI.

As for whether or not I want Yu Jing looking like the villain. Eh, I'm ok with it but I don't think its a one sided evil portrayal. I play Combine Army and Pano (who has a slave alien race) so it doesn't bug me much. I'd say Pano and Yu Jing are more the same than different on the morality scale. Pano just likes to take the moral high ground while Yu Jing doesn't care so much about what outsiders to their culture think.