So if it turns out ALEPH aided the JSA over the IS during the UprisingTM I may unironically begin advocating Yu Jing take the purple pill and join the CA. Would mean the instant loss of Paradiso for Humanity. It will be annoying to have to buy the new sculpts and paint everything black and red though, as if there is not enough of that going around.
Cut their funding, "lose" a few garudas and dakinis. Seriously though, why do we have no allies? Why would we continue funding Aleph? This makes no sense and is quite frustrating, so much for "exciting developments". Yu Jing are now a bitter isolated asian state with a grudge against everyone...pretty much a wacky incompetent North Korea.
The supposed lack of allies for Yu Jing is weird. China is investing heavily into developing countries and their hands-off internal policies approach makes them really popular among the less-transparent regimes. You could even argue that present day China (and US) is a whole lot darker than Yu Jing even with taking Kuang Shi into account, you just need to twist the darker sides a tiny bit more like how Yu Jing's underbelly is twisted and shown to us. Can you say off-shore torture facilities and civilians burning themselves to death in desperation? But that aside, Yu Jing should have a lot of allies in the small councils of the O-12, plenty of trade partners on Earth and with a large number of NGOs across the human sphere. A lot of corporations should be very upset with PanO and O-12 for wrecking their trade.
Ariadna is probably more friendly to us than to pano and JSA at least. I think it would be cool to help them out in the campaign as well.
Allies are circumstantial, even Nomads who Yu Jing do not really like at all (for various reasons) and vice versa, have sided with Yu Jing for the Ariadna affair for example, but aside the loosely formed and informal "coalition" of the small ones, Nomads, Haqq and Ariadna and the even more incoherent NA2 (who are chunked in this category) there are no permanent allies, PanO and Yu Jing have to sway the three small powers to their side.
Of course, and I think that's what we're talking about, only with a bit of a wider view. The argument here is, I think, about the more minor powers that are still recognized nations: these are plentiful on Earth and in the Solar system, places like Nigeria, Russia, Israel, the non-Haqq Muslim states left behind after the exodus to Bourak, even the still-breathing corpse that is America. All those are present in the setting material, before even extrapolating out to other territories on Earth, to the status of the Druze territories there, to the possibility of independent planetoids in Human Edge having been recognized. Those powers lack much status in O-12, (though they probably get issued a few token Oberhaus seats) but they represent economic and military entities that cannot simply be ignored. The idea that Yu Jing has courted them as the current PRC is courting African states is a good one, and one where the power dynamics make gratitude and alliance longer-term than the apparently rapid shifts of alignment between the major powers, even if it does not play a direct role in winning Security Council votes.
Go read Macchiavelli. Nations don't have long-term allies, not when pretty much everyone is at more-or-less the same power level, anyway. There probably aren't any nukes on Ariadna, mostly because you don't need them when you have rocks in space and easy access to space. A sufficiently large rock at orbital velocity will work just fine. So yes, this time, the major powers lined up against YJ. Ariadna was probably pissed off about YJ corporations, PanO will basically always work to keep it's own place at the head of the pack, so their opposition is a given. Nomads were probably bought by promises of lots of Japanese spaceships built in their yards. Not sure what Japan could have sold Haqq, other than 'spite the nose of YJ'. I will be disappointed if CB doesn't have another big event that goes against PanO (say, Acon goes boom and suddenly there are millions/billions of refugees to move around). From what I heard way back in the old days (I'm talking N1 here), there's a whole triple trilogy of books at work here, we're just barely starting the 4th book (or are at the end of the 3rd, take your pick). Anyway, supposedly, Spoiler: possible world-shaking reveal here the Ariadnans are the heroes of the story at the end. When you're telling a trilogy, the middle story is where the bad guys really start kicking ass. Look at Star Wars ep4-6. Just the names kinda give it away: "A New Hope" then "Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi" But really, the first 3 books of Infinity (Core, Human Sphere, and Campaign Paradiso) were just the introduction of the setting. Now we're getting to the bad guys really going around and kicking ass. The internal name for the book after the Paradiso campaign actually gave some things away. one of the blockades falls, Combined Army troops start getting to planets other than Paradiso.
With the CA vessel (temporarily) pushing through Wotan and the next global campaign possibly having Onyx forces on Dawn, we've definitely reached a new level of alien advance, and it does seem like that will trend upward. I'm a little concerned over that, at what point does 'evil aliens are invading to enslave us' start to unify political adversaries (even if temporarily) in a common human front, push the realities of open war through the setting, draw actual battle lines on more worlds where the main action is now regiments and divisions not small special-operations infiltrations or Paradiso patrols (recalling that, in Campaign Paradiso, the writing explicitly lays out that specific local conditions limit conventional military operations so that lines are permeable and fighting takes place between smaller units, allowing the games of Infinity we play to represent front line clashes. This won't... well, CB can write what they want, but to pretend at preserving suspension of disbelief this shouldnt... hold true on other planets). If I were showing up to watch Infinity the Movie once every couple years, or tuning in weekly for Infinity the Anime, this sort of trilogy structure would be something to applaud, to keep me watching. In a wargame, it is not inherently a good idea. To me, the setting as it was in the very first core book was excellent, not just for being different and having depth, but for building a world where small skirmish games were the things that fit best, mattered most. Reviews of Uprising leave me feeling the company is working with different priorities, but I think whatever form the darkness of the Empire Strikes Back phase takes it needs to work hard to preserve that dynamic. That may seem like a rambling aside to the thread, but it is actually probably the one major reason why, even if I'm not enthused about it as a Yu Jing player, a Yu Jing-Combined Army alliance would be good for the setting. You'd have to start with a betrayal and a 'coup', Yu Jing opening the floodgates of Maya to let the alien intelligence in, ALEPH withdrawing to avoid corruption, the EI essentially replacing ALEPH in Yu Jing society. A waste of processing on being a glorified search engine and filtering tool, but a short term one until Yu Jing wins and the human AI is brought to heel to take up that mantle again while working to unravel enlightenment. Yu Jing retains its O-12 membership, its trade relations. Instead of an open war with an alien invader, the Human Sphere now has no 'front lines', wherever Yu Jing is the Combined Army can be. The war between PanO and Yu Jing continues, a cold one with hot moments as both still seek to lead the Sphere. The war between Aleph and the EI also becomes colder, as both attempt to use politics, trade, propaganda and small special operations missions to gain advantage or support from the various human powers. I'm not saying thats where things are going, its a divergent idea, nor that its the only option. But as possibilities go I think it would allow for escalation while preserving the absolutely-excellent relation between games of Infinity and the background of Infinity that we've had so far. And I hope, if not this, we get something that can do similar things in the setting rather than tumbling into THERE IS ONLY WAR.
I can't see how a YJ-CA alliance would work, as the EI would want to be in charge (more than Aleph is), and The Party does not want to relinquish control. At that point, I'd have O12 declare open war on YJ. No more Infinity deniable raids, it's World War. Err, Sphere War. No quarter to the betrayers of humanity. True enough. With the post-Wotan situation of at least one CA ship pushed past the blockades, this could be CB's setup for a second Infinity game. one intended for larger battles than what the Infinity rules can do. 15mm scale, maybe even smaller (I'd expect 15mm, due to previous experience, but 6mm would also work). Flames of War scale, battalions and regiments per side. In Flames, you might have a single infantry company, but you also have another company's worth of support weapons and a platoon or two of tanks. That's three companies, if small companies, and that's a battalion.
You can say that 300 points is what usually clashes in a "sector" of a city, and that the rest of the army is in another sector. It's been done in the Zoilo Wars (the annual Majorca's narrative campaign by Bakunin Shop). Not really, the EI lets the day to day to natives... it would replace the Emperor, or place itself over both emperor and party, but it's more a "this needs to be done"... and in the short term (until humanity gets "annexed" or the CA gets repelled) there would be little conflict between EI and party, since they would have to focus on the rest of humanity... and Sun Tze would be royally pissed off.
A single or small handful of ships isn't going to be enough to launch a full scale invasion though. The CA forces that did get through are going to be relying on stealth and small lightning raids whilst they wait for reinforcements.
@xagroth thats my take on the Yu Jing uniting with the EI as well... the Party wants control of their society, wants unity and social cohesion and, albeit with caveats, equality. The EI does not challenge any of those things, it wants them done, and if the Party is volunteering to do the work so much the better! The major obstacle there is the Party view on Aleph during Uprising. The Party wants complete control. Did Aleph support them? If not, Aleph is working counter to their goals. But the AI is needed for the basic functioning of society, which is absolute proof the Party was willing to give up direct power and control to gain some benefit. The choice between Aleph and EI is thus not 'do i maintain control or surrender it?' but 'i am surrendering control regardless, who can I surrender it to that will work least against my interests?' Thats where the other side of Onyx comes in, diplomats and agents making the case that the EI is Aleph, but better for Yu Jing.
Well, there could be interesting twist if at some point CA diplomats would actually arrive and some semi-permanent diplomatic relationship would be established as a result. Another round of spy games and covert ops, I guess))
Since apparently my sarcasm-detector has been damaged, I totally love the idea of trolling CB back in the next global campaign. And then I realize that it might encourage further Flanderization and crap from CB.
This has been one of the most hilarious threads until the last page. Kuddos to those first couple of pages. I was trying to come up with some combination of hungries and shaolin monks, but it just didn't read right after I typed it ou.
Now I'll never be able to look at Hungries again without imagining them awkwardly trying to practice kung fu.
I think it's important to think long term. YJ may be depicted as the beaten down villain right now, but in 10 months they might be the savior of humanity as Invincible Army holds the line against some new story development. If you actually read Uprising too, Sun Tzu pleaded restraint and moderation at every turn vs JSA, which basically fell on deaf ears an was ignored. That factor, combined with the notion that Yu Jing is getting two new Sectorials in the future, tells me that Sun Tzu + Invincible Army could easily take center stage soon, from a story-telling perspective. Besides, if we're tying things in to politics, think about it; the brutality of a police state/secret police entity triggers a people's revolution. The People's Army then comes in and restores order, achieves great things, and gains the popular support and love of the people for decades to come. It's a trend that occurs in the history of many countries, and could easily occur for Yu Jing. I'm actually much more concerned for PanO. Forecasted to get a new Sectorial when you already have 3 feels like they're getting set up to take a big hit.
@barakiel I think it'd be hard to come back after that portrayal in Uprising. Portraying Sun Tzu as being against what was going on is really more about showing that Aleph wasn't endorsing it, since he's a Recreation, IMO, than having a sympathetic/heroic wing of Yu Jing.
