Yu Jing Fluff - Perception, Reality, Desire

What can I say its in the fluff that is why I like it so much, at least now a few people have their books and we can debate on the actual fluff, as I said I am quite interested in Ikari fluff that makes an interesting turn, making the historically huge casualties JSA had not a demand from Yu Jing high command, but decisions of JSA generals, I am a bit disappointed nobody discusses Candy double background and the imprecations she has.

 

@psychoticstorm
1. Most of us don't share your particular view on the topic
2. Most of us also don't have access to that material

If you want discussion on a topic where you are one of few wanting discussion on it, you're going to have to spit out both information and a starting point of the discussion instead of lamenting that we're not discussing it.

 

I was under the impression that @ijw posted before that the source was not stated, the document was being commented by a Haqquislamite teacher.

Ikari fluff goes into the NA2 subforum, not in the YJ one, and much less in this thread. Also the post suggests that you don't have the book yet, care to elaborate?
As for the Specops, most of us couldn't care less: 7/10ths of that chapter is recycled, the Dire Foes scenarios are something I still have to see being played anywhere, and Xi Zhuang's has already been discussed (suprise! His father dies because of the Triads, he hates the triads, he worships imperial agents, and somehow ends in counterinsurgency instead of in anti-triads).

Candy Double might be interesting and relevant, but as Mahtamori says, until the end of this month most people won't get the book.

 

You are right I was just hoping that I would not be the discussion initialiser, but other people who have read the book.

Ikari's background is background of a honourable man falling in dishonour and rage because JSA high command wasted his entire family in pointless military actions wile not addressing his reports of internal corruption, not by order of Yu Jing high command (who would rather not have troops wasted for no reason) but because they want to look good on their superiors eyes (regardless of casualties we did what we said we would achieve), this puts a rather interesting dynamic in Yu Jing high command and JSA relations and why Ikari hates Japanese more than Yun Jing (who lets admit it should have addressed the JSA high command issues instead of letting them do their own thing as long as they succeed).

Candy's background is far more sinister in implication, Candy show is not a show you watch (only) it is a show you experience and experience what the actors experience, it is implied that it is both addictive and a manipulator, PanO would never do the Iron wall if the public pressure was not that massive from their populace and the populace were indifferent to the Japanese problem before Candy's show depicted Japanese as victims (with a well chosen location ectr ectr). It leaves a massive implication on how these shows can manipulate an entire nation perception and PanO been the biggest consumer of such shows (they need expensive technology after all) are extremely susceptible to such manipulations.

If I was the hexahedron or the PanO political command I would both be extremely interested and fearful of this event.

 

Try watching some real Australian journalism.

John Pilger has put together a very solid documentary called "The Coming War With China". It's a solid watch for anyone whose only knowledge of this until now is the pro-war US media.

It's pretty much all about this, except for an extensive section near the beginning on the Marshal islands... buuut you should probably watch that too because if you don't know about the US plan to "contain" China with military force so it doesn't "challenge" them economically... well... then you probably have no idea about the massive historic and ongoing humanitarian crimes of the Bikini Island atomic testing and military occupation either.

Its probably a solid watch for anyone interested in Yu Jing fluff anyway, especially from the whole "who is the bad guy again?" angle, and even has a solid section on the Japanese people in Okinawa and what they really think about the US military occupation of their land, which is also somewhat relevant.

And then there was the bit about how the US nearly destroyed the world in that section. About the one thing I didn't already know going into that documentary. (I mean I know they nearly initiated nuclear Armageddon through incompetence and belligerence more than once, but I didn't know about that specific instance that would have involved, possibly accidentally?, nuking China without warning).

Anyway its probably very relevant to anyone who would prefer more realistic and sympathetic fluff for Yu Jing, because Pilger doesn't shy away from a variety of criticisms of China, but the picture ultimately painted is fairly sympathetic despite some glaring flaws. And that's how you paint a realistic shades of grey picture.

His picture of the US is far closer to a cartoon villain, but as a long time student of modern history I cannot help but point out... mercilessly accurate...

 

Its specified that old man of the mountain wanted the stringer protected and that the red veil raid was a cover to get her out. So either he wants to fuck yu jing over for reasons or the kuge gave him a bunch of promises. Like I said before its a Rube Goldberg machine.

 

Again, PS, I don't have the book to read yet. Probably won't have it until about May 4.

Excuses?

I state facts. You can look them up yourself.

You really need to read sources other than PRC news, brother.

The US isn't doing a Naval Blockade, that's an act of war. The US is sending a single ship at a time through the South China Seas in a Freedom of Navigation demonstration. A ship doing a FoN demonstration does not interfere with other ships in the area, other than to talk to them on the radio to avoid collisions. A plane doing a Freedom of Navigation exercise is in a lot more danger, we've had planes crashed into before. But we try to avoid collisions with planes, too, because it puts the crews of both planes in grave danger. IIRC, the pilot of the plane that crashed into an EP3 died, and the EP3 had to make an emergency landing.

China is free to send their warships to the US EEZ for a Freedom of Navigation exercise. The time at sea away from the coast will be good for them as sailors. Hell, I think Chinese warships have even visited the US directly. Yes, there will be several USN ships in the area, just to make sure nobody gets stupid and starts throwing missiles around.

When China sends their fishing boats to the US EEZ, the Coast Guard chases them out. Happens all the time around the Aleutian Islands. Because EEZs are supposed to be exclusive to the nation that 'owns' them.

China is free to fly their bigass Badger bombers (H-6) across the Pacific in a Freedom of Navigation exercise, too. They can expect an escort of US fighters when they enter the US ADIZ, the US Air Defense Identification Zone, which is about the same size as the Exclusive Economic Zone around most countries that have an ADIZ, ~200 nautical miles, ~400km. They will need to bring a lot of tankers, though, Badger bombers have lousy range (only 3000miles, and it's a long way across the Pacific if you want to stay out of the US ADIZ as long as possible).

I would not recommend that the Chinese bombers simulate attack runs while in the US ADIZ, someone might get trigger-happy.

The various Freedom of Navigation exercises the US does. I'm starting to suspect that the US is doing them near-continuously, in the largest statement of "You don't own this water" you can make without shooting at people.

But it's obvious his information sources are very pro-PRC.

If you want a relatively neutral news source, I'd check what Al Jazeera has to say on the subject. Not perfect, but they're great for news on Europe and some US topics. Mention Israel, though, and AlJaz gets really bent out of shape.

 

XP feeds have been a staple of Eclipse Phase since the beginning, and are present in the Infinity RPG corebook (so many things are there from EP I feel like I'm reading a parallel universe, then again good fiction creates school) and it's not by any extent sinister, just the equivalent to what today is going around with a GoPro (the main difference is that Candy & other "lifebloggers" usually transmit LIVE -in all senses of the word- instead of a prerecorded file).

I assume you call it "sinister" because of the "old" (90's, I think?) movie about that black market of XP files that were all about sex and, in the instance that launched the movie's plot, a snuff.

The Old Man is all about "protecting humanity", and it's suspected (by us players) to be some sort of expert pseudo AI program or cuasi-Aleph (or even a part of Aleph more or less independent), so the stringer getting out & alive might be because of a lot of reasons without involving "JSA paid for it"; besides that is one of the two new Dire Foes stories.

 

I'm pretty sure you're talking about two completely separate parts of the book.

The main chronology is unsourced, and followed by a Haqqislamite instructor's comment.

The article about the death in Kuraimori while under martial law is a Haqqislamite news article later in the book.

 

On the South China Sea, I think you've got a number of factors going on: petrochemical resources for sure, but also China seeking to defend its own trade interests. The idea that they would cut off, or even charge passage fees, on shipping moving through the sea is ludicrous. They never will, even if the whole is accepted as territorial waters. What they will do is be sure that defense of the trade on which THEY rely is not in the hands of those they don't trust, such as the US. There is also the matter of history... regardless of legal legitimacy (or ideological insistence on equality of nations), the nine-dash line LOOKS strange to the casual observer, and very much on-topic for this thread there is a point of pride based on China enforcing a claim, proof that the state has moved from the era of unequal treaties and foreign concessions to reclaim its place as a world power, China is the one imposing unequal relations not the victim of them.

The USN is definitely running very frequently through the Sea in one way or another, and while you could officially claim its all about navigation rights in part its also thumbing nose... the PRC can't stop them, how does ANYONE stop the US Navy?


On the story in Uprising about the Celestial Guard shooting a little girl, I may be the odd one out here in that I think that is a good story to have in the book. Taken in isolation, it certainly has to be a reference to the inequality and violence inherent to occupation forces, and to police forces in general. The occupiers/police feel fear or claim to do so, their response is objectively an overreaction at best but usually one that is clearly criminal. The justice system is structured to absolve them of responsibility, the culture to laud their crimes as heroic defense of the nation against the danger of Afghani shepherds/African-Americans holding shower-heads/etc. We haven't agreed on much in this, but @psychoticstorm is absolutely right in contextualizing this story and the Yu Jing occupation of Kuraimori as surprisingly gentle, a credit to Yu Jing as not-the-bad-guy... if Black Lives Matter had launched an armed insurrection instead of organizing street protests, the number of African-Americans shot dead by cops would be astronomical.

Alas, that sort of thing loses impact if it is preceded by stories focused on similar brutality.

 

Pilger is no journalist.

Leaving that aside, my challenge was to your mischaracterising FON as a blockade.

 

Either you are A: a troll, or B: actually chinese, or C: an idiot living in a western nation that has been living off the benefit of the US being the sole superpower for the last few decades so your country can slash defense spending in order to afford all the other nonsense you want to throw money at.

Either way, you're not doing a good job of selling your narrative as anything more than a pro PRC spin in violation of the data provided by the entire rest of the world, including the neighbors of China (I would struggle to call Vietnam a US puppet).

 

You mean like the Today show?

 

Considering the way he complays about his own country, he's probably spanish. Complaining is amost a national sport (and we have a lot to complain about).

Also, considering how hard the economic crisis hit Spain, I understand the need to spend as little as possible in defense.

 

Unequal treaties are just as unacceptable now as they were then.

Well, part of that is because there's not really any other way from the Pacific to the Indian Oceans. The only other option is down the east side of the Philippines to Papua New Guinea and then south to Australia and then west. It's only about 3000 miles out of the way, which gets back to why 25% of the entire planet's cargo shipping goes through the SCS.

You stop the USN's surface fleet at your recognized territorial waters. There are only 3 ways any navy will enter your territorial waters:

1. Passing through an International Shipping Channel, like at the Straits of Hormuz or Panama Canal.
2. On the way to a pre-arranged international visit at one of your ports, like Holy Loch or Rota.
3. By declaring (or to declare) war on you.

That's why the Royal Navy has a single ship between the Cliffs of Dover and that Russian flotilla passing through the English Channel. No pre-arranged visit, but they are in the international shipping channel. Just in case, one ship to prevent total stupidity.

The hailing of the Celestial Guards as heroes doesn't help that interpretation.

Hell, if the American police wanted African-Americans dead, they'd just stay off the streets and let the gangs fight it out. Baltimore has found that out the hard way. "You wanted us out of those neighborhoods. You get to deal with the 10x increase in violent crime."

 

Freedom of Navigation is an Orwellian title for "practicing a blockade as an act of sabre rattling aggression". Hell not just practicing, placing all the forces required there and keeping them there.

Again, China would not be allowed to do that off the US coast the US, paranoid as it is would go fucking nuts.

And again. I pointed you to an excellent source on this watch the documentary if you think you know what is really going on, challenge yourself with something educational from a source outside your comforting propaganda bubble.

 

@xagroth
It is called sensatranslator in the book it connects with the cube and transfers not only what the 5 senses of the actor sense but also the actors feelings, I get the impression that they may be a bit more than allowing the users to experience what the actor experiences and feels, since they work via the Cube they may, it is not written, influence what the experiencer thinks too.

A bit conspiratory in thinking, but PanO public opinion went way too fast from "who cares about Japanese they are Yu Jing" to "oh those poor Japanese been oppressed by the Yu Jing we MUST do something" and it was mainly influenced by Candy's show, from the book IIRC the Kuge did not engage any PanO agents or PanO government, they dealt with PanO corporations, who of course pushed PanO to act, but I get the feeling PanO government was not that thrilled to act on the subject and was pushed by the public opinion.

@the off topic discussion
I am not sure I feel that comfortable in debating the subject of contemporary politics in a thread about a fictional future, the debate seems to be a bit high spirited.

 

You know, reading thru it again there's an awful lot of yu jing victories in the blow-by-blow timelines that just get glossed over, or dismissed as "but they should have done better", where the JSA forces never retreated and had to be wiped out, or where an engagement took too long "despite overwhelming firepower". There's obviously a lot of bias in the narrative too.

 

Yeah there's some of this in the Candy Cloud narritive, where you're getting Candy's inner monologue as she decides how to act and feel and what to express for the benefit of her viewers, like acting defiant in Kerr-Nau's face because that's what her fans expect even tho she's got a lot of fear buried deep in her core (presumably exempt from the recordings).

 

The sensa-broadcasts were definitely meant to indicate some new evolution not just in entertainment but also mass communication. Meaning a powerful new propaganda weapon.