Nothing has happened that could trigger a Guts Roll. There is no attack. Requirements Several events can force a troop to make a Guts Roll: Passing one or more ARM or BTS Rolls. Failing one or more ARM or BTS Rolls, but not remaining in a Null or Immobilized state. Surviving one or more successful Attacks from weapons, types of Equipment or Hacking Programs with the Non-Lethal Trait, or that do not provoke ARM or BTS Rolls.
That would be true if there was no attack. In the context of Sensor though, how can Sensor not be an Attack yet have the Attack label ?
Sensor doesn't need to target a specific model, or any at all, because it apply equally to everything over an Area of Effect. But I could agree that as a successful WIP+6 attack makes a Discover (which does have a target), then only HD/camo/TO inside the area of effect are actually targeted by the successful Sensor discovery attack. They would get to Guts (if they are trooper, not deployables) but no one else.
Pushing buttons in an ITS mission is also an Attack, as is placing a Deployable. The Attack Label also interacts with other things in the game, notably Stunned state.
I would say the button was subject to being attacked. And same for the camo inside the deployable trigger area, he was subjected to an attack. And since you cannot attack camo without discovering them, the deployable attack is void.
All Deployables are placed as Attacks, including Sniffers, FastPandas and Deployable Repeaters. None of which are restricted in any way by the presence of nearby Camouflage markers. Anyway, I suspect we've already reached the point of having to agree to disagree. :-(
So, Sensor is an attack, affects the trooper, but isn't targeting it, so it doesn't actually mean the trooper survives an attack even though they're being affected by one? How does this even work? This should also have consequences for being allowed to Dodge when affected by Smoke in that case (and of course Guts Roll in same situation)
Sensor is not a weapon, piece of equipment, or a hacking program. Therefore the last bullet point for Guts cannot be applied, and it does not provoke a guts roll. It has the attack label means you cannot use Sensor when you are stunned.
... An etiquette thread and you already started without me? Ok, I have a slightly unusual view of this, which is that I don't need to know how to manage this in my play group right now, have no disagreement with @macfergusson's first post, because it will work in that context, but also think Vaul has a point. First thing, it may be worth stepping back to notice that discussions around around courtesy and etiquette* always get a range of wildly different receptions in this forum. I think it's because we all tend to write from the context of whatever amounts to courtesy in our different locale. In some places, the group's behaviour is already organized according to well-developed mores so the way they play makes complete sense to them all, and they'd probably balk at suggestions of any other way of playing. In others, a suggestion to adopt those same mores might well be considered unnecessary, and maybe restrictive or even coercive. I can think of a few threads that've seen that breadth of division. When games and sports survive long enough, they all work out how to manage their own necessary courtesy by developing a formal etiquette, and - especially now that Infinity is an international concern, I'm sure we'll do the same for our game too. The basic difference between rules and etiquette is that everyone can expect you'll conform to the etiquette, but if you don't, you're shouldn't have to lose a point, or a game or a match. Whereas if a rule is not adhered to, that would or should attract some sort of penalty or censure. We've already developed a few that are being widely accepted, like the way we manage Deploying Hidden Deployment troops with players saying to one another "Please turn around in case I have HD troops, thanks". No doubt VaulSC's group click their smartphone cameras whether they have HD/AD or not, but the point is that there's space for that degree of bluffing if you want it, and if you don't need that level of bluffing then it doesn't take any more than a few seconds longer. It's a structure of courtesy that works at whatever level you're playing. As useless as the question is to my group right now; and as outrageous as it might seem to others, I'm pretty sure he's only really asking for a polite way of managing Sensor and HD that won't clutter up the game, but will still provide a bit of scope for bluffing. @Vaulsc is that right? * Some players attach great significance to the way the word is used in the rulebook, but I'm simply using it in the normal dictionary sense: etiquette |ˈɛtɪkɛt, ɛtɪˈkɛt| noun [mass noun] the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group
Note that using a smart phone to record Hidden Deployment is a commonly accepted shorthand, but it sits outside the confines of the rules. The rules indicate that you should "write down" Hidden Deployment locations. To make that shorthand method more playable, asking someone to turn around whether you have Hidden Deployment or not is acceptable within the bounds of sportsmanship. It helps preserve the privacy associated with being able to note down Hidden Deployment in secret. The social contact expressed there is "I may have Hidden Deployment, I may not. No implication is given, but you've given me a window of opportunity to record that information in case it's relevant to my army list." However, triggering the sound effects of your phone to fool your opponent into believing you have Hidden Deployment would be viewed as poor sportsmanship. Rather than presenting a neutral window for recording Private Information, you're attempting to deliberately mislead your opponent. It's the same as verbally stating "I'm writing down my Hidden Deployment information" and making three separate entries on a notepad, when in reality you have no Hidden Deployment at all. The game allows you to utilize Private Information as it pertains to the units in your list, but it doesn't allow you to fabricate Private Information beyond the scope of your list. Does that make sense?
I think asking your opponent to turn around so you can check is something you are going to have to do every time sensor is used. Otherwise you can give up to much information.
If you're asking your opponent to turn around constantly after deployment, this is veering dangerously close to "delay of game" territory. It is exceedingly simple to just have your opponent sweep out the ZoC of the Sensored area at the end of the order in which it was declared.
So in our example that Vaul actually had I had a sensor bot, 1 sniffer and then a 2nd sniffer placed and moving the sensor bot. That's 4 locations that we would need to carefully measure 360 degrees from, in a way that didn't give up any clue about where the actual model was. So very accurate 360 "sweeps". This could take a lot more time than you turning around... Yet the latter is wasting time?
