Another First List Post

Nice profile pic, and welcome!

I think your list is well balanced as far as composition. And competent at performing objectives, assuming your playing ITS scenarios. Having such low order counts in two groups may be issue, however, and I'd recommend filling one group and leaving an order monkey (ghulam rifle) and perhaps an ARO focused unit (Lasiq sniper) or hidden deployment unit (Taureq) in a second group. Keep in mind, you can use your command token to move a unit over to your main group once a unit dies and is removed from the table.

As you play more games, you will likely want to include one or more objective focused units like skirmishers, but this looks like a great list to get started with.

 

I agree with the comments of futwahjones. In addition I would use one of the Ghulams as your Lieutenant. Your Khawarij is than able to perform more agressive jobs without fear of Loss of Lieutenant.

 

Creating a list with the models you like is super fun, so props to you. List is sound, but if it were mine i would change few things -

• I would switch 12pts Ghulams for two Naffatuns with LFTs. Great antiAD tool, also nice LT decoy.
• Tuareg Sniper isn't the best sniper piece in Haqq. - 6 is certainly something helpful in ARO, but having HD sniper with average BS is kinda wasteful. His specialist loadouts on the other hand, very good.
• Zhayedan. If you could drop sniper rifle from Tuareg' hands, Zhayeboi could do some serious damage with his MMS2. Also, he is a good option for Lt.

 

I would like to express my doubts on value of double Azrails, Azrail FB and Tuareg Sniper in general.
But then again, I don't know much of how vanilla is played, and besides this looks like a list made out of starter set an few extra minis.

I would definitely support suggestions about moving more pieces into 1st group and on making one of your backline pieces into Lt.

 

Well, I think it's not bad in general.

A bit more on Lt: Naffatun with Rifle can be an Lt, as well as Zhayedan. Preparing for different matches you can switch role between them. Naffatun can be your DZ guard while not attracting much trouble between him and his twin brother, meanwhile Zhayedan could sometimes take that role if you think your opponents will persist trying to get your hidden "cheerleader Lt". Consider that Rifle Zhayedan is a close combat piece that is not unlikely to end up dead on his own active turn since he's quite an investment you'll want to make his points back - meaning going there actively shooting things and putting himself in danger.

Ghulam Doc can help in that situation, but first of all, beware of Shock. Second, you will likely have frontline and backline of sorts (between your rifles on one hand and sniper/HMG on the other). To help your doc with being where you want him to be, you can take some small gizmo on a 25mm base and proxy a Nasmat with it (that is until you will maybe buy Hakims box that supposedly will come with those). Getting 3 points for that in this particular list is doable in several ways, although I feel most of them may sacrifice a bit of flavour for that. So it's not like I think it's a must, but something to add to your experimentation queue, perhaps.

Also, TIL that Naffatun HFT also has a rifle (but not grenades). I should really look more outside of my Hassassin shell.

 

For vanilla I really dislike the Khawarij. His abilites require you to be mobile to make the best trades, but he doesnt have the skills to do so well, and is two squishy for straight up trading, especially with the rifle. I would personally proxie him as a Hunzakut and upgrade one naffatun to another ghulam doctor

 

I have never been a fan of Khawarijis, maybe because i cant find the use for them.
Which is sad, cause i have 5 models.

 

Am I the only one who loves the Khawarij? I can't always fit them in a list, but when I do, they have a huge impact on my games. Super-jump + fatality is rad. Super-jump + grenades are extra rad.

Sure, they aren't the most durable, but as flankers, extremely enjoyable to play.

*EDIT: @ik3rian how many of each sculpt do you have? I would be interested in 1 or 3 of them ...

 

In my meta I have never played against an opponent that left a flank open. Superjump only works if you can find somewhere to do it out of LOS, otherwise no cover hurts a lot. If they had smoke instead of normal grendaes I would think them really worthwhile.

 

Well sure, players won't just leave the flank open on purpose. If you play creatively and create openings, you'll probably find that a "guarded" flank has actually been left relatively defenseless with the strategic removal of one piece. It may take more removal to open an avenue of attack, but I have never played a game in which my opponent has made all routes equally defensible.

Its like any sport or military engagement; by strengthening your position in one area, your opponent weakens another. Exploit this and win. Super-jump is a fantastic tool when used to attack from an unexpected angle. An open flank may not always appear as such at first glance. And remember, you have the active turn, so burst will out.

If all else fails, prone on a roof with relatively high PH and grenades can be devastating. I enjoy the grenades and wouldn't want to see them leave ... but i would take smoke too :)

 

I guess that older players don't like the Khawarij just because we don't use it, we look at they and think "meh, he's too expensive, i can bring better units for that price", while players that began with RV used it a lot more, and kinda have some love for he.

Older players simply doesn't played a lot to see his magic, i only used he once, he was brutal, but i could do the same with other units (but not with the same gameplay).

 

I can see that. Something to note though: I’m new-ish, but I didn’t start with red veil, and I have most of the haqqislam line of products. I definitely play a wide range of units, and there are often other choices than the khawarij. He took practice, but now that I’m comfortable running one, I’ve started running two in some lists. It’s probably too much, but the list was a ton of fun.

 

Im aware of how to make space for him on the table. The problem is that making that space typically requires another 30+ point unit, bringing the effective cost the of the Khawarji to 60+ points. For that I could bring tarik who doesn't need help, or kusym beg and a Djan who will wreck turn one.

I started Haqq with red veil and ran the Khaw for over a dozen games. Tried everything to make him work and just always found him lacking for the points, he cant outshoot, he has no mods to stack, no way to mitigate enemy mods, his one trick is positioning and I just never found an opponent who let me get more than one jump a game in with him.

 

I'll take your word for it.

Why do you need a 30+ point unit to do this? Last I checked, Ghazi are only 5 points ...
Don't like Ghazi? Daylami are only 8 ...
Feel like going crazy and spending a lot of points on a bike? Kum are only 10!

Don't get me wrong, I love Tarik. I love Djanbazan. I also love Khawarij. The last game I ran with khawarij was 2 of them with Tarik. It was a blast.

 

I think i have one rifle from the latest starter pack and 3-4 from the older packs, one of them has Muyib spitfire hands.
Not sure if i am interested in getting rid of them rn, since i am still hoping for RTF this winter.

 

Ok so you threw smoke to give him room to run. To bad your opponents MSV2 is sitting on that building watching the rooftops, so now you need your own msv2 to counter the opponents msv2, so that your smoke can cover the khaw and he can jump. I think they will be amazing in ramah, but for now a 30 point model that needs at least 2 other models to be useful is just a waste. Especially with how many other 30 point shooting platforms we have.

 

I guess you’ve never used a jammer? Or stealth? Or cover? You don’t have to super-jump every time you move. And why would you drop smoke in front of a unit with msv2? Seems like you might not be playing very effectively in general ...

 

Not sure why your starting to make personal comments when im simply offering an opinion. To get a jammer in range of a backfield ARO piece is going to be at least 2-3 regular orders on top of the impetous and irregular order of the mutt. As for not super jumping, no not every time, but the ONLY reason to bring the khaw over a djan, govad, lasiq, druze, sekban, kaplan, muyib, odalisq, or zheyadin is the super jump. If you arnt super jumping everyone of these options offers an advantage for the same points.