First time ITS tourney list help

It would be easier to help with an ITS list if you would inform us the missions you'll be playing.

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Please be aware that, as Pedrozgz has said, we need to know the missions that will be played. Infinity is a game where the list tends to rotate depending on what you will find.
Also, no matter what we tell you to use, you need to know how to use it, and that means playing a lot, since there are a lot of situations that can happen, because of different tables and the like.

As for general guidelines:

• Dakinis are terrific specialists (fast, reliable, bonus to Medic/Paramedic objectives), great "rocks" (units used to slow down and limit the enemy) thanks to their Mimetism, and if outfitted with a Sniper Rifle and Supportware, good hunters.
• Posthumans are, right now, nearly a "must have" for Aleph. They are the only really affordable HI (with all else on the 68+ points band) and as specialists they cover almost all bases.
• A pair of Myrmidons are always a good idea, for the smoke and as a melee escort for the MSV2 (if using an Asura or a Deva, if you are using an Agema, then one is enough for smoke, and the other can be a reserve and back-covering).
• Servitor remotes (Yudbots in Aleph) are multipliers for the reach of medics and engineers. Always try to bring two, and if you can fir the Sophotect, so much the better.
• Thamiris is a no-no unless you need that Reporter N2. A Danavas is much better for +1 pt, and having 2 hackers is the bare minimum unless your only one is a KHD (so naga or Dasyu)
• The Garuda is a rambo piece to clean the enemy's back, but the Ekdromoi has better tactical flexibility and Diomedes is the best AD troop Aleph has (worth every point, I'm not so sure if the mk12 is better than the Multi rifle, due to ARO/firemodes...).

 

I strongly disagree. For me, Danavas is a no-no unless you really want to play the White Noise game. For every other use Thamyris is superior. While HD+ gives Danavas stronger Hacking combat programs, this is more than offset by Thamyris's NWI, not to mention Thamyris is much more survival in regular combat due to higher BS and PH. Assault Pistol can be very useful for clearing enemies which are close by, while BS11 Combi Rifle is honestly a trap in every sense. Even if enemy engages you above 8'', you're better off Dodging anyway - neither of these troopers should be having shootouts at range. Cybermask for Danavas can be useful, but it will also drain your orders. Both bring Pitchers if you really want to use them, and Thamyris is marginally better at BS12. And as a bonus, Thamyris comes equipped with Nanopulser.

Danavas is a Nomad profile disguised in Aleph colours.

Ekdromoi Hacker is useful if you really want a cheap specialist. For every other use, I prefer Garuda over Ekdromoi. Diomedes is cool, but too expensive unless you really want to use Diomedes specifically. The Lt profile is a trap - you will automatically be in LoL for the first turn unless you start him on the table, in which case you are wasting the points paid for AD Combat Jump.

 

1) Cybermask. Have or not White Noise (which has its uses, specially with Posthumans).
2) Pitcher BS 11 AND combi, Vs Pitcher and the Assault pistol... better range bands AND Suppresive Fire option.

Tamiris gets +1B and wins with BS 12+3 in the first range band. In the second, the Danavas goes to 11+3 while Tamiris goes down to 12. Thir range band? Tamiris goes to SIX, the Danavas to 8.
Again, Thamiris does not have Suppresive Fire, which can be used to cover a flank, and imposing a -6 (cover + SF) is better than a +5% to hit with a single dice.
Thamiris is AVA 1, Danavas is 2.
Danavas has Upgrade: Maestro, only Scylla and her has it outside of the CA's KHD (Kerr-Nau & Bit). Useful against 2W hackers like CA's, YJ's and PanO's.

Thamirys' Nanopulser is useful only when you wanna risk using that NWI, or when trying Intuitive Attacks.​

I have 2 Danavas (well, one is a Kanren Hacker) and Thamirys. The strategic flexibility of the Danavas is superior to Thamirys, while he has some short range advantage.

 

As I said, yes, White Noise is a major advantage. Cybermask is... okayish. But the problem is, you are spending orders protecting your weak Hacker.

Second range band, yes, Danavas has a minor advantage. However, if you are shooting with it at all is the problem. Thamyris can always Dodge on 12s to Danavas 11s. And if you count that enemy will almost certainly have at least cover, this means Dodge is at least equal to shooting.

​

Yes, Danavas has suppressive fire, but honestly, that too is a big trap. It's super easy to throw her out of it, not to mention just outshoot her.

Also, I like your bait-and-switch comparison of -6 to 5% - any particular reason why Thamyris doesn't have cover in this scenario?

​

Soo... What? I mean, if you really want 2 of them you can always go Thamyris + Danavas. I fail to see why you would ever take 2 Danavas.

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Yeah, Maestro is nice(ish); but don't almost everyone will be attacking it with KHDs of their own. Honestly, I see Danavas as a death trap.

Also, the Maestro ability is not the real draw of the program, it's the +3/-3 that it gives.

​

Good for you :)

Again, I strongly disagree. Danavas provides lots of strategic options in a really fragile package. That fragility is what worries me.

But also, completely honest, I really dislike Danavas primarily because it is not an Aleph-style profile, but rather some Nomad crap. Give me Uhahu profile instead and I'd be happy as a clam.

 

Then don't use it. I don't 100% of the time, you know. Only when I need to, and moving 3 times her MOV is what I need (mask, move + move, move + action).

Coordinated Order 3 Dakinis + Danavas. The enemy uses 2-3 orders to take her out of sup fire? Objective achieved. She survives? Even better.

-6 from Danavas SF to the enemy, with B3 at 5-8, Vs Thamyris imposing a -3 with 1 die at 12. I prefer the Danava's odds... specially if the enemy feels clever and maneuvers a Hacker to remove the Danava's SF. Surprise, he used 2 orders.

We must be playing in wildly divergent metas, then, since in mine a KHD shows up on every list, aside from maybe Nomads (who just throw more hackers of all kinds).
And I find hard to understand how the CA players around you are not using either/both Kerr-Nau and Bit.

Option 2 is Asura Hacker+, Deva Hacker, or Posthumans, the latter of which I already mentioned.

Frankly, I would have preferred the Danavas to be a 20pts KHD, with her loadout and maybe an upgrade (like White Noise, but maybe Kerr Nau would feel less snowflake then...). I still hope that profile will show up for Vedic so we can save SWC when aligning remotes.

 

My point was that while useful, it is a marginal bonus over Thamyris.

Most often any competent enemy will need one order to kill her. Or just ignore her.

A competent enemy will simply engage her either from long range, or will not engage her at all. Or use a camo marker, maybe a mine... Plenty of options. And Danavas is bad against all of them.

That was my point, KHDs are everywhere and Danavas is super-vulnerable to them. For Thamyris they must either be using Trinity (which gives no bonuses/penalties) or score two wounds.

I know the other options, we were just discussing specifically Danavas vs Thamyris.

Meh, it would be another Nomad profile. It has nothing that says "oh, this is an Aleph profile" - she doesn't have NWI and her stats are exceptionally mediocre (only WIP is decent). She doesn't even carry a Nanopulser! At least Nagas have decent stats and excuse that they are part of SAA.
Not to mention Combi Rifle? Thank you, no. We have too much of them anyway. And pitchers sounds awesome until you try to use them (on a BS11 model!!!!). Too many Orders required. We are Aleph, not Ariadna or Haqq.

Bottom line, I refuse to use such Nomad profiles. If they wanted to give us a cheap Hacker, they could've given us many better combinations. I would have preferred if they took Deva Hacker, replaced Combi Rifle with Submachine Gun and upgraded its HD to HD+. Now that would have been a profile to play.

 

You are lacking some key model but some can be used as proxy.

I would suggest using Hector as Achilles, machaon as a proxy mk1 doctor, Thamyris as proxy mk2 hacker, the deva as proxy mk5 FO. You will need something to proxy a yudbot.

ALEPH
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10 1
ACHILLES Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
ATALANTA MULTI Sniper Rifle + TinBot E (Spotter) / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
MYRMIDON OFFICER (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 35)
NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
PROXY Mk.1 Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
DALETH Rebot Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Submachine Guns, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 17)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

It's not perfect but it should give you a feel of Aleph. If you need more specialist, replace the naga minelayer by a forward observer or KHD (you will need to change the krakot equipment)

For your next buy, I would suggest posthumans and some more lamedh/zaying (I always use 2 lamedh, often with 1 or 2 zayin)

 

What sort of problems do you seem to be having in your losses? That with knowing the mission should help us create a game plan for you

 

This is your first tournament. Don’t enter with the expectation of winning, as you’ll probably get creamed - especially since your knowledge of your models is so low, that you can’t make a list.

That’s not a critique, just hard facts. We’ve all had our first tournaments.

First of all, sit down read through the missions, and try to understand them, make notes on what specialists is required to win.

Now make two specialist teams of at least 4 models, these are the ones, that will win you the games. Make sure, they’re equal in points cost.

Then make a core muscle. Hard models, that can ruin an opponents day, as they dish out damage.

By using the same ‘beaters’, you’ll minimize the difficulty in improvising. You’ll know the strengths and weaknesses of your offense. So you’ll have less to learn.

For example, I like running a list of

Achilles+Patroclus Spitfire

These guys kill, they move fast, and although simular, each can do things, the other can’t.

MK1Engineer+MK2Hacker+MK5 FO
Myrmidon CoC Officer w. Eclipse
Danavas HD+

5 variations on specialists. Both the CoC and the Danavas can help A and P to approach MSV2 - which is their weakness. And the CoC allows me to access the lt order.

3 Daikini Medics
2 Lamedh

These can provide orders, while securing the deployment zone - and do last minute objective grabs.

 

And that is my point, there are no ‘net lists’ like in warhammer, and very little in the way of ‘auto-includes’. Even Aleph posthumans are merely a really, really good deal. Although there are synergies to take advantage of, like smoke+MSV2 Hackers+REMs etc. It is not your list, “it is what you do with it”.

Sounds like you’re just having a hard time adjusting to the game, and you’re trying too grasp too much at the same time. I’d suggest, what you do is simplify. You’ve got a decent myrmidon collection, so you could go for a Steel Phalanx approach. Using fireteams will reduce the number of Tactical pieces, you’ll need to understand to win games, and thus reduce the complexity untill you get a better understanding of the nuances in the game. How about a couple of lists like this :

Steel Phalanx - Smoke&MSVs (300/300 | 6/6)

Group #1 | 10 Models | 10 0 1

Teucer Feuerbach MSV 2 | Multispectral Visor L2, Nanopulser, Feuerbach, Pistol / Knife (44)
Machaon Lieutenant | Lieutenant, Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades, Pistol / DA CCW (38)
Myrmidon Spitfire | Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Spitfire, Pistol / AP CCW (31)
Myrmidon Chain Rifle | Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Chain Rifle, Pistol / AP CCW (16)
Myrmidon Boarding Shotgun | Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Boarding Shotgun, Pistol / AP CCW (24)
Atalanta MULTI Sniper Rifle | TinBot E (Spotter), MULTI Sniper Rifle, Pistol / Knife (39)
Myrmidon Officer Combi Chain of Command | Chain of Command, Nanopulser, Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Pistol / AP CCW (36)
Eudoros Mk12 | Mk12, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades, Pistol / DA CCW (40)
Myrmidon Chain Rifle | Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Chain Rifle, Pistol / AP CCW (16)
Myrmidon Chain Rifle | Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Chain Rifle, Pistol / AP CCW (16)

2 fireteams each covering short-medium range bands, each carrying a button pusher, each capable of covering itself with Eclipse to combat the threat of MSV2, while using smoke to make the most its own MSV2 support.

Very simple, you’ve basically got 4 models on the table, and only two types of them.

There is no complex things, no hacking, no weaknesses to explore. Once you’ve taken out any opposing MSV2, you’ll win most FtFs.

Needs you to get two models; Teucer and Eudoros.

A second list could be :

Steel Phalanx - Hector (297/300 | 6/6)

Group #1 | 10 Models | 10 0 0

Myrmidon Officer BSG Chain of Command | Chain of Command, Nanopulser, Boarding Shotgun, Eclipse Grenades, Pistol / AP CCW (35)
Myrmidon Spitfire | Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Spitfire, Pistol / AP CCW (31)
Myrmidon Chain Rifle | Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Chain Rifle, Pistol / AP CCW (16)
Atalanta MULTI Sniper Rifle | TinBot E (Spotter), MULTI Sniper Rifle, Pistol / Knife (39)
Myrmidon Officer BSG Chain of Command | Chain of Command, Nanopulser, Boarding Shotgun, Eclipse Grenades, Pistol / AP CCW (35)
Myrmidon Chain Rifle | Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Chain Rifle, Pistol / AP CCW (16)
Hector Plasma Lieutenant | TinBot A (Deflector L1), Lieutenant, Plasma Rifle, Nanopulser, Stun Grenades, Heavy Pistol / EXP CCW (71)
Thamyris Hacker | Hacking Device, Pitcher, Nanopulser, Assault Pistol / Knife (24)
Zayin Rebot HMG | HMG / Electric Pulse (26)
Netrod AI Beacon | (4)

Again very simple list, but you’ve got a little more diversity - and Machaon can either proxy for or substitute aCoC officer.

Thamyris supports a TR bot, which is a great ARO piece - and can be used to push the offensive, as MML2 is awesome. It does bring the added complexity of ‘hacking’, although what Thamyris does is basically two things; spend a full order on giving MML2 to his TR bot. Or use his pitcher to cover an enemy TAG or HI (Fireteam), so that they’re neutered from his AROs. Hector does open up vulnerability to Hacking, but he’s got good BTS and outside Nomads, most hackers either work by supportware or are dedicated killer hackers, which doesn’t bother Hector - in return you get to use your 11th lt. order.

Your two links might not be full 4-man links, but you’ve got smoke/eclipse, and you’ve got a B5 ODD spitfire and B4 Plasma rifle to advance your buttonpushers. I’d prefer Teucer for his NWI and Feuerbach, but you’ve got Atalanta with her BS17 and formidable range.

Both very simple lists, that rely on the same tools: beating your opponent through superior quality of firepower.

 

The first half of that is something that recently clicked for me. While a strong first turn alpha strike is really tempting to pull off, you have 3 rounds to play with.
Try looking at the mission and breaking down the rounds with a specific tactical goal for each one. For example using either of the lists Regelridderen offered in Annihilation: 1st round target MSV and remove them, if hidden move up units to catch them later and take out any trouble units you can get, save 3 orders to reset and rearrange for the reactive turn; 2nd round search out trouble units and engage on your best terms, if an opportunity to move up a flank and take out order supply appears go for it, save 2-3 orders for reset; 3rd round mop up.

Or the list I recently used for Rescue

Spoiler: List

Finally
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

10
ACHILLES Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
SCYLLA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Maestro) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser + 2 Devabots Charybdis / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34)
DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (7)
NAGA Combi Rifle, Monofilament Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
MYRMIDON OFFICER (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 35)
DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Round 1 I dropped White Noise with the Danavas through a Lamdeh's repeater to cover Achilles first movement from an MSV sniper. That allowed me to move up Achilles to total cover in his good range band unseen. He came around a corner and put the sniper prone (Gao Rael with mate) and out for the turn. He then moved up the field to his Civilian while shooting in the open against a Rasail at an angle that denied cover, grabbed the civilian and returned it to the edge of my deadzone and left it behind while moving to midfield.
Round 2 I moved my Mk5 Datatracker to take the civilian and moved it to my deployment zone while trying to hid the Mk5. I then cybermasked Scylla and moved her and her bots towards another civilian to make a grab run next round. I then took off the mate from his Gorgos and placed a mono mine in its path.
Round 3 I sent Scylla up to get the last civilian and unfortunately lost her to some well triangulated AROs while grabbing them.
Turned out a 6-1 Victory after I helped him realize he could secure my HVT for his classified.