Hacking AROs and Repeaters

Basically, the way i undetstand it is, if a trooper moving into ZoC of a repeater give Hackers a chance to ARO with a program that they can use. So a non Hacker does not provoke AROs from a Killer Hacker.

 

As I unterstand it, de Trooper generates a ARO but the KHD simply can´t do anything. (Otherwise Blackout ARO would not be possible)

so:
A: Yes. It is the same as with the Program Blackout.
B: No. If both Troopers enter the Repeater Range simulateously both are valid targets for the KHD. The Umbra must be inside the Hackable Area to perform the hack itself.
C: Yes. the Program would allow for an ARO. But i would assume it must be used against the grunt´s Area. On the other hand i don´t know of any rule, which would supress dropping the white noise field anywhere else.

 

KHD doesn't have Blackout.


If it was a trooper that was a valid target for any available Hacking Programs then the Hacker would be able to ARO.

 

If an ARO was generated then any trooper walking past a repeater would generate Hacking AROs which would then enable Hacking targets to enter range with impunity.

 

Hot topic. There are some divergent interpretations; either the enemy KHD only needs an ARO to be allowed to Hack the Umbra, or as others claim you need to gain an ARO against the target.

Personally, I think the rules work as the former, but would like the rules to work as the latter.

 

Was there no outcome to this discussion, from the likes of IJW? I don't see how it could be the former.

 

From memory, IJW expressed his personal opinion that generating ARO should be sufficient, but I don't think he invoked the Voice of Law so to speak on it. I'm sure he'll be here to correct me on this eventually, though.

 

A) You are correct.
B) This is still unanswered (and a part of my "open questions" thread).
C) I will defer to others, but it seems to me that the answer should be the same as the question "If I get an ARO with a smoke thrower, can I throw it anywhere, or do I have to 'affect' the ARO generator?"

Also, Samaritans don't have HD+, that's the Legate :).

 

Since there are programs you can use in ARO that do not require the target to be hackable in order to be used, I'd say that it's the "check if you can do something against this guy" kind of ARO...

a) It works, yeah. Fun times when used against SP's Machaon...

b) ARO has 3 conditions, the third of which is

Since a KHD has no way to affect an Ikadron through hacking... Of course, RAW we need to keep checking, for example the hacking characteristics entries:

I have emphasized the "if". Anyway, the first entry makes clear that the trick is a no-go. Another thing would be entring with a (non-stealth) KHD and an Umbra...

C) I'd say that... surprisingly MAYBE yes. But only (and if it really is that way) because the H+ has Blackout, allowing a hacking ARO against non-hackeable models WITH comms equipment, so only if the Grunt carries something like that. If it were, for example, a 10 points Alguacil, then the answer would be no...
And I reserve the caveat that the wording is not clear enough for me to say that you have to use Blackout, that is (since White Noise does not target a model).

 

Can we increase the convolution a little further and make the repeater's existence hidden information, like a Lu Duan pretending to be TR Pangguling with Holo1.

What happens if we do that, does the reactive player need to know he has potential AROs? Could you activate your backline hacker who looks like he's going to buff a Husong, wait for no AROs then declare an attack program on an enemy hacker instead and take normal rolls?

 

I... don't really follow your idea. If the troop with a repeater is in Holo1 state, then the hackable enemy troop moves into ZoC of the Holo and the reactive player HAS TO declare hacking, breaking inmediately the Lu Duan's disguise (it's stated around repeaters, dunno if it was on Scylla's explanation or where, but it was), so the other player can declare Reset.
If the enemy trooper has Stealth, and tries to fire against the Lu Duan (let's say a Proxy mk2 AHD with Boarding Shotgun feeling happy for applying a -12 to an enemy Total Reaction), then yeah, he moves, and when he declares shoot (breaking stealth) he eats the hacking ARO.

 

Other way around. The Holo repeater moves into repeater range of a hackable target. You activate a hacker that could trigger an ARO from the enemy hackable target, but because your repeater is in holo1 state your opponent doesn't know he has an ARO so probably says no AROs. Then you declare a hacking attack against the target through the holo'd repeater and try to claim a normal roll because your opponent did not declare an ARO. I think that works? Maybe?

 

Checking the status of HoloN1 (state) says that it does not affect Automatic Equipment (so the Repeater works, even if it is not visible).

However, checking Reset we see that its requirements include being target of a hacking program.

Assuming you say something along the lines of "My hacker moves, ARO?" while the Holo'ed Lu Duan (I think it's the only profile in the entire game able to pull this off...) is inside the ZoC of an enemy hacker (let's say mk2 AHD), by courtesy rules you are obligued to notify your opponent that his MK2 is inside a repeater...
Else, the Mk2 can claim he was unable to declare since he was not notified the information, thus allowing him to declare ARO against the second order (the hack attemp)

 

Which page are the courtesy rules on again?

 

"courtesy rules" as in "the rules of gentlemanly gameplay". Meaning not being a dick for the sole reason of winning...

I find it interesting how there is such a bllue box in the spanish corebook, but not in the english one...

Infinity core rulebook pg 9, spanish version (pg 15 of the english one, since the spanish rulebook does not have a sample game... it's in the same page the "open and private Information" is located in both rulebooks):

Spoiler: Spanish

Translated to english:

Extrapolated to the current situation, one can surmise that once your opponent has moved a hackable troop inside of a hacking area he has no way to know is there, you should say it to him, or if you don't, you can tell him after and ask if he wants to change the second short order, so there is no need to call on a judge, check the forums for ages, or lose someone to play with ;)

 

TR Panggolin has a Repeater, it's the EVO Panggolin or one of the Aragoto models that doesn't :)

I disagree that you are forced to reveal the presence of the Repeater if it is on a trooper hidden as a marker, the rules state that using the Repeater will cause the Repeater-carrying trooper to be revealed. It would be nice to know if this extends to Holo1, which I'd suspect it does.
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Repeater

 

The Lu-Duan is the only model carrying both a Repeater and a Holoprojector (be it L1 or L2), that's why I said it's the only model in the game able to pull this off. As you say, it would need to pose as an Aragoto (or Asuka Kisaragi) for the situation to arise, since all other options are either carrying a Repeater or are hackers themselves.

Hiding as an EVO might be even more misleading, however, since an enemy KHD might try to hack it (bad idea, considering Breakwater and that only the EC EVO carries a gun).

 

I would argue that this is different from what the Spanish book is talking about. The Spanish rules are discussing a situation that involves completely public information. This scenario involves using private information that is supposed to be used as a surprise attack. As we can see from the wiki discussing hidden models preventing models from reactivating camo, for a player to be essentially be able to "check with his opponent if there is any LoF that might block the order's execution." to detect the presence of a hidden model would be ridiculous, and clearly trying to extrapolate this text to include private information is wrong.

You can't extrapolate the Spanish only text and resolve this situation this way if you do. So I'm quite confident you're applying it incorrectly here. It's simply for speeding up situations where public information is involved, not private information.

Personally, I would not have an issue with it if my opponent pulled it on me as the function of the holo projector is to allow for a surprise attack. If my opponent uses rules that are supposed to function via deceit to deceive me, it'd be pretty silly for me to get mad at them for successfully using these rules to deceive me. I would essentially be getting mad at them for playing the game correctly.

Particularly as in this scenario there are tells as to what's going on. As you point out you need to disguise the Lu Duan as a bike. A suspiciously slow moving bike that isn't using or generating Impetuous orders.