I think it should be clear, by now, that the community is upset by this. I feel like the wargame industry is really bad about customer service in general, but this still seems like something you'd want to address in even the most basic way - 'we hear you' is even the smallest starting point. The problem is that there is none of that, even, and that's what is so confusing. They go to adepticon and are like 'hey it isn't IA it's Tunguska!!!! SO FUNNY RIGHT?!" And that just sort of seems like you don't want us to play. EDIT: Which frustrates me because I want to get excited and get back in to the game and a brand new JSA starter should have done that for me.
You mean the loss of my entire meta's data, since none of us saved lists in Army 6. And we pretty much only played ITS scenarios. Yep, it takes some interesting mental shifts to use Ninja, Guilang, or Tiger snipers. Statistics are only valid if you're asking the right questions. We've already beaten the idea that a model used in 15% of all saved ITS lists is probably being used by fully 1/3 of the faction like a dead horse. 15th century Japan would be an improvement over where we are now. We're currently talking about 1930s Japan, the worst of the Imperial Japanese Army's atrocities. And that is NOT a good place to be. I think I'd rather have an EM CCW, but yeah, it would be good to get some kind of better assassin. I'd be game to test that out! (Though "Nip" isn't a good option, it's an older version of "Jap" and just as offensive.) I mean, we never have found what the Chinese word for "sneaky bastard" was to replace Ninja in YJ lists... That was my original vision of the Su Jian, a HI that transformed into a motorcycle.
Old version of Jap is one thing, but do people consider it offensive or just mildly annoying to have their nationality abbreviated? Example: Queer as used by famous closet racist Lovecraft meant "strange", after Lovecraft's times that turned into the offensive term for homosexual (and still is according to Twitter), but it was reclaimed and is now no longer derogatory to simply mean homosexual (some wear it as a badge of pride). In what state is the term "Nip" as abbreviation for Nippon/Nipponese is what I'm asking? (Not to be confused for the more modern use which is abbreviation for Ninjas in Pyjamas) Quick search comes up with the term Wuxia (either Martial Hero or Kung Fu Hero), unfortunately we have McNeil. Cike is apparently a sub-genre of Wuxia that's roughly Ninjutsu. Jianghu could also be a term. Wuxia seems more like a hero-level Shaolin Monk*, though, than an assassin. One of the core principles of Wuxia is compassion with vengeance being contested as to its relevance. Or go full Mortal Kombat. http://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Lin_Kuei * Which would make for a pretty decent foundation for a HI Shaolin, if it weren't for that spot roughly being taken by the Crane. On the other hand, a quasi-warband HI slot is open now that Haramaki have left the faction, though execution would have to be done vastly different from Haramaki.
As I previously said in another thread (or was this one, but many posts ago) the "Forbidden City" Wuxia Movie, with Gong Li as the unfaithful Spouse of "Jade Dragon Emperor" Chow-Yun-Fat, have a very good rendition of what could be the ancestors of I.S.S. Lin Kueis. . . Point to check, in the Kung-Fu Panda (Aristeia 8-Ball ?) "Cartoon Network" T.V. Serie, the "Lin Kueis" are a Bandit Gang of "Antropomorphized Mountain Wolves" that not only could represent an excellent Chimera Gladiator Pit-Fighter Squad (seriously, they combine "weighted ropes" attacks with an efficiency of the best Haris / Fire-Teams !!) but also could be seen as a sort of Ariadnan Antipode Squad-Warband-Pack with very advanced training (and we know that "Free Antipodes" are evolved enough to down Kossak Helicopters with Teseum Tipped Javelins and Bow Arrows !!!). . .
As i have not been into Infinity for long, i dont know how bad such issues are here, but i do fear that this loss of options makes Vanilla YJ waaaay to predictive and thus easier to counter, anyone correct me if that is an unnecessary fear and 100% negligible.
It's overstating things but it's largely true, it's not negligible but it's not intolerable. Unless you play in an extremely competitive meta it won't stop you winning games or having fun. MO is in a worse place and still wins reliably; MRRF and Shas even more so, but people still have fun playing them. So even with this change I'd probably just place YJ in the middle of the pack: also, it doesn't affect ISS which is still top-tier or there abouts.
Not a dispute so much as a note; all of those examples are sectorials, two of which are renowned for being on the obvious side of things (MO (sans TOOFOS spam) and ISS). Sectorials are all compensated with Fireteams for their lack of diversity and Yu Jing has been hit on specifically diversity without compensatory rules or releases. Looking historically, as the vanilla diversity has increased with newer releases, HSN3 saw sectorials gain a similar increase in number of Fireteams (and also in diversity). It is cause for concern, but we shall see where it is headed.
Yeah....pretty sure that's what CB had in mind, and all other factions would love to see, Yu Jing players struggling against all odds, only to get defeated in the end....but don't worry, because this will lead to the Invincible Army getting mobilized and Hoooraaaa, Yu Jing Number 1 or whatever... But let's be real here, what fun would playing Yu Jing be in the next campaign? You are instantly branded as the bad guys right from the get go again, not only are you for some reason once again on Dawn where you "don't belong" so all Ariadna will hate you, you also compete with PanO who just recently supported your civil war's enemy faction, so another enemy right there, then there will be CA who is always your enemy, Nomads who hate Yu Jing just cause they are the evil Hyperpowers as well, Aleph who won't do shit for anyone, Haqqislam who will backstab Yu Jing whenever the opportunity arises, Tohaa who still hold a grudge against Yu Jing cause they can't achieve anything else but to be a thorn in Yu Jings side, and of course the JSA themselves, who will be Yu Jings mortal enemy for ever onwards from now on... Every single goddamn faction out there (except maybe some NA2) will be Yu Jings enemies right from the start of the campaign, and Yu Jings Playerbase will be reduced SIGNIFICANTLY because as CB well knows, a lot of Yu Jing players played JSA exclusively because Anime and Samurai and Ninjas and whatnot.... The Yu Jing community is now full of toxic or at least angry people who don't enjoy what CB did to their faction as well, so getting the motivated and pulling together will be extremely difficult, and at the first sign of trouble, people will blame it on CB ruining their faction and quit in massive numbers. And to make it worse, even the previous "leadership" of Yu Jing in the last campaigns will be torn apart as some (including me) will be switching to JSA for this one. So yeah....I know I personally wouldn't enjoy being part of Yu Jing during this years campaign, which is why I won't be, and will be playing JSA instead.
Simple; make a narrative where Yu Jing are, once again, forced to step in on behalf of Ariadnan side in order to prevent another landgrab by Pan-O and basically force the two to work together. Just acknowledge that Yu Jing will be significantly decreased and tie them together with one of the factions from the start.
I don't care what narrative they cook up unless CB pull their heads out and do something to properly address the community backlash I'm sitting this one out and I certainly won't be wasting my time and efforts running events for it. If they don't care about me, then I don't give a damn about participating in their campaign and their work can go to waste.
Yu jing isnt abandoned Carlos talked about freed up design space: Vanilla reduced as it is could even be reclassified as an 'emergency sectorial' even without link teams the sudden usage of duo without evo hacking would help. With the second round of closed battle lists I expect plenty of entertainment to come from yu jing. This is an incredible time to be playing infinity, the release schedule is insane and there's more sectorials to play against than ever.
I don't think anyone believes that Yu Jing has been completely abandoned, far from it, Yu Jing is due to get 2 sectorials next year most likely... The problem is that they are abandoned NOW, and most likely will continue to be so for the rest of the year, and a year is very long for most players (I know it's a little less long for me nowadays with kids and whatnot, but I know that it can feel like forever especially when you are younger with a lot of free time at your disposal...), so a lot of frustration will mount up for those players, and some might even outright abandon Infinity because of it. Which is sad, but I'm pretty sure CB expected that to happen, and they'll live on without those players. Looking at how toxic some of them are behaving in threads like this one, we might end up better of without them in the end to be honest....but that's just my opinion.
I agree 100%, it's why I said it's the backbone of an informed desicion. They worked with what they had, and I don't believe Malice had a play in their desicion. Like I said in another post, this is a negative light of the next Campaign which is not necesarily true. As a matter of fact, it was agreed among Haqqislam High Command Wotan Veterans to go into the campaign with a "Start from Scratch" mentality, and be open to working with any Human (or Vegetable) Faction (including Yu Jing). And I speak personally when I say that Yu Jing is the least of our worries for next Campaign, not because we think badly of them, but because the campaign will take place in Dawn, and just that fact makes things complicated for us in advance. We're now scratching our heads about our role there and are waiting for the Campaign Fluff to hit. PS: While I won't say Haqqislam is above Backstabbing fluffwise, playerwise we're going open minded and trying really hard not to let the events of the previous Campaigns dictate a pre-concieved notion of the next one.
Well that's part of the problem really isn't it? Yu Jing IS the least of people's problems now, because it will be so weak, nobody will seriously have to worry about it anymore.....yet they will still be considered the "Evil Hyperpower" and any victory over them will be considered a glorious kick in the but against the evil guys..... It's nice to hear that Haqqislam will be open next campaign (wink wink, nudge nudge, JSA could use some allies, wink wink, nudge nudge) , but I have also seen other factions who won't be, with pics like "Never forget Narooma" appearing on Facebook Tohaa stuff for example... But who knows, maybe CB will forcefully make them have a better starting position and forcefully ally them with others like Mahtamori suggested, but then there'd be other sorts of flaming going on about unfair advantages or whatnot to compensate for that anyways... Oh well, enough of me painting this negative picture, I'm sure people actually playing for Yu Jing in the next campaign will be better at it, I'm just glad I'll be playing JSA :-P
I recently started playing infinity, I started because of the Oriyo and monks...sure I know the Oriyo was never great, but it was some sexy robot. One month after getting it, it gets removed from Yu Jing....I don't like to proxy, and now I have an Oriyo I cant play, sure I could always start JSA, but why, why must I spend more for being treated badly. CB could of announced that JSA would be leaving after a year, I mean at least let us get some play time out of new models we have just bought. The worst part was the hype they built up around Yu Jing community getting dumpstered, I mean lets have a one week hype celebration, to celebrate our yu jing players getting done in. Yes the Oriyo is still under the Yu Jing section in their catalogue, that poor new player that buys that model. I refuse to play JSA, even though I probably would of started them if they stayed in Yu Jing. I have kitsun too, and Yuriko Oda, ....the Tag hurt the most (yes it is painted) As for power levels, I am not good enough to understand the impact of loosing all these options, but I suppose loosing a third of ones faction cant be great. Any way thought I would just add to the rage, best to let it all out.
I understand your point, but this is always going to happen so someone, whenever a faction gets removed/revamped. Back when GW squashed Warhammer Fantasy, I was invested into that system much more than I am into Infinity now, so I was furious when it happened. Eventually, I kept most of my miniatures anyway and kept playing games with the same people, despite the game no longer being officially supported. As far as Yu Jing is concerned, I am heavily invested into that faction and a good quarter of my Yu Jing miniatures are now JSA. Now, does that mean my miniature are worthless? No, I just can't use them to build the same lists as before and that is only true for ITS. In friendlies, I can still play my JSA with my Yu Jing because, effectively, nobody will complain about that. In the long run, I can either expand and play them as new JSA, sell them or keep them for scenarios or as proxies. The timing might be unfortunate for some (I just bought the Shikami and pre-ordered the new one as well), but that's just part of the hobby. Taking out miniatures from the catalogue or stating several months in advance that they are going to be taken away from Yu Jing would just interfere with CB's release and marketing strategy.
I sincerely doubt Yujing is gonna receive 2 sectorials next year. White banner is on the freezer with svalarheima and is gonna be there for a long time. So what's gonna be that second sectorial? Yanjing (Yujing Intelligence) as sectorial? I don't think so. Yep, not completely abandoned, they are going to deliver Closed lists and some reinforcements during the campaign... probably because the Invincible army starter and playlists are not close to be released (or because the think that there are almost enought invincible profiles) and they are going to deliver some placebo for the hungry masses. But this is no time for complaining. We must endure this hardships and claim justice with might and compromise. Beginning with the incoming campaign! Let's make them hear our claims with pure community effort and not just a couple of angry clients on a forum!
What frustrates me most is you have made a "canon" that does not exist and for half a month now drum it as if it is true like the interactions you have with the campaign leaders of wotan, that were always bad and out of cannon. I wonder how come nobody has give some tidbits of the book yet. I would rather say the whole uprising puts the Japanese elite as the villains than Yu Jing, but hey.
It would be naive to think that because we are "owed" another sectorial that we will get one. We will receive the Invincible Army sometime around the beginning of 2019, and maybe some White Banner units later that year but that's wishful thinking. At this point I'm not hoping for anything more than IA, this Uprising drama has worn out my optimism. I've not played a campaign before so I'm interested to see how it works. I'm fully prepared to embrace the "evil faction" fluff, but less prepared if I have to do so with a nerfed profile selection for my faction. Also if the campaign works on the basis of the total number of wins per faction then statistically we're screwed and it's difficult to deny it. Our only hope is some competitive (and fun) closed battle lists, but again my optimism has been exhausted. My situation is similar, but I'm not very excited to keep running my JSA units in Yu Jing as it doesn't feel thematic or fluffy anymore. I'm not in a position financially to branch out into two separate factions and from what I've read neither are a lot of other vanilla players. I'll try using them in casual games as proxies for profiles that I want to try before I buy, but the best option at the moment seems to be eBay (at a loss unfortunately).
