Let’s talk about Aleph’s situation in N5.

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Angus, Nov 7, 2025.

  1. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Ghazi were never cheerleaders - always cheap(ish, in some of the more recent profiles), Irregular Impetous models. An atypical Warband im that they are not any good in close combat, and they aren't officially classified as a Warband, but they function like one in all the other aspects.

    Ghulam, yes, these are a great example of a Line Infantry, especially since the "shotgun tax" was reduced in N3 & then further reduced in N4. But keep in mind, Light Infantry was traditionally the Haqqislam's strongest asset (just like TAGs were traditionally PanO's strongest suit), and Ghualm were often considered to be the best Light Infantry in the game.
     
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  2. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Protector of the Search for Knowledge

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    We also have to careful of terms. Like @Errhile inferred, cheerleaders by definition cannot be irregular as they then don't prove a regular order to power your other pieces. There is a super rare exception if they are in an army using Inspiring Leadership.

    One could argue that Aleph already has one of the best cheerleaders in the game with the Netrod. But for the Operations box, they definitely will have some s2 models for the line troops.

    Edit: And the need for cheerleaders are super dependent on your Faction, army build, and style. Some people like to make forces where every unit is more than just generating an order.
     
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  3. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Just for the sake of argument, I'd argue that Netrod is a very bad cheerleader.

    It can provide a Regular Order for 6 pts, under, I think, any circumstances (being Religious and Warhorse) and that's about it.
    You have limited control on its deployment - it has to Combat Jump with a 60% chance (Combat Jump PH=12), so you can drop it somewhere it might be safe - but there's 40% chance you'll have to deploy it on your friendly table edge. And it'll sit there till the end, or till some airdropper comes after it - or something fast makes a deep raid and will shoot it down just to deprive Aleph player of its Order...
    And that's it. It has no weapons, no Move, no WIP, no PH - it can take no opposed action when a Combat Jumper / Parachutist comes knocking. I honestly don't know if it can decalre any AROs - maybe Alert?
    Nb. CA Imetron is exactly the same.

    In my eyes, the next closest choice is a flashpulse drone - 1 pts more (7pts), but mobile (6-6 at that!), with Mimetism -3, Repeater and a Flash Pulse to give it a chance in FtF shootouts. Of course, these drones are way bigger at S3 and lack Religious + Warhorse.

    Netrods are... very important sources of cheap Orders for the expensive Aleph models, that's true. Aleph has hardly anything better in that regard (given their Lamedh Rebots are AVA 2 in all Aleph armies nowadays, you can't build a cheap Order battery solely out of them - and your mainline models are goign to cost a lot of points... and require to be fed lots of Orders. Then again, 2 Lamedhs, 2 basic Probots and 2 Netrods, that's 6 Regular Orders for 42pts total... but that's my QK side speaking, where an Order Battery of 3 Fanous and 2 Kameels - 5 Orders for 37pts - is considered a viable build).

    As a cheerleader, however... Caledonian Highlander Army has their Volunteers. Not that they are going to turn heads as Light Infantry on their own, but there is a 6pts loadout, still a Regular Order (true, not Religious nor Warhorse, so you're in the usual bad spot if you are in LoL or Retreat) with a budget LI statline - and packing a LSG + Chainrifle. Can guard your DZ, can guard a corner, can - with a bit of luck - win a FtF with someone who shows up - and there's also a 10pts Paramedic if you want a Specialist option. And if he can't expect to win a shootout, he can always lay down a Direct Template.
    If Aleph were to gain a cheerleader troop like that guy (with extra stress on the pricing staying the same), and an AVA better than Netrod's Avaialbility of 2, now that would have been scary...
     
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  4. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Well you got me there. I did not notice that NW has Unidrons also (why then all the complaints about the lack of cheap troops ;-). Blue Coats on the other and maybe labled at Line Troopers but there are like an upgraded version and do not fullfill the role of the typical LI-Line Troopers as they reaching up to 25 pts. Remember: Yu Jing´s Zuyong and Shang Jis are Line Troopers also!

    But Blue Coats are a good example what CB could make out of Danavas. Here I agree, some kind of toolbox line troopers would be a nice addition especialy when they count as "Dakini" or "Deva". Devas on the other hand, are veteran troops (and MI since N5).

    But I still not see, why Aleph need another linetrooper in the vain of Dakini or Thora (which are both not LI, but that definies the exception beeing Aleph).

    If the box will follow the typical layout then we will see Alguas/Dakini. If we lucky and the box will move to mid priced signatur troops like Wildcats, Devas or even some new Danavas.

    We are moving away from the main theme, did we? Aleph is not designed to have access to cheap cheerleaders without a special. Dakini / Thora are on the higher price for cheerleading line troops. Netrods are unique and I did not think CB will give more cheap stuff to the so called elite sectorials.
     
  5. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Protector of the Search for Knowledge

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    I am not sure that Aleph will not get any more cheap stuff. Note that I am defining "cheap stuff" as below 10 points. We have seen new design philosophies with more SMGs to allow cheaper profiles. We also could get new FT masters to allow potentially irregular troops to become cheerleaders.

    @Errhile is correct about the Netrod. I am just remembering when they used to be 4 points. But I can see an 8-9 point something Line Troop for the box. Basically, I am attempting to somehow justify how they could fit an Asura in a Two player box.
     
  6. VonKrolok

    VonKrolok Well-Known Member

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    Let them add more Danavas, I can see an engineer and a medic having WIP15 and maybe even an Lt profile to hide some high value Lt's.

    As for Asura I wouldn't loose any sleep trying to justify that. If points were fundamental they would put points in the booklet. Sometimes boxes were quite one sided, sometimes they were more balanced than the game itself
     
  7. Angus

    Angus Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the possibility of a new Line Trooper for Aleph, I think the real key to the 'hype' isn't just about whether they are cheap or not. What’s truly exciting is their functional utility.

    If we look at recent releases like Next Wave (NW) or Koldun Command Forces (KCF), their line troopers have some incredible configurations that redefine the tactical landscape:

    • NW (Harbingers): They have access to the cheapest Wild Parrot in the game, and the lowest-point Hacker capable of ignoring Stealth.

    • KCF: They offer the most affordable Disco-ball (Albedo) deployment, and a 14-point Thunderbolt + Minelayer combo that is exceptionally efficient.

    • Reworked ISS: Even the revised Imperial Service now features a 14-point WIP 14 / BTS 3 Hacker, providing a very reliable tech piece at a low cost.
    If we only focus on 'low points,' the game loses its depth. Effective line troopers expand the tactical possibilities and decision-making on the table. They prevent the 'all-or-nothing' scenario where you’re forced to move only high-point units and feel like conceding the moment they are lost.

    In my opinion, Next Wave has already proven that line troopers don’t need to be dirt cheap to be powerful; they just need to be effective. That’s the kind of design I hope to see for Aleph.
     
  8. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see more of this stuff among all factions. Some creative bits here and there. But Aleph already has cheep stuff in the form of Posthumans. Sure you pay a minimum tax of 30/0,5 for two of them but they provide the best specialist for their price. In the case of Hackers only Hassassin Barids offer more bang for the buck (pitcher) but do not have the surviveablity of the PH (mime, NWI).
     
  9. VonKrolok

    VonKrolok Well-Known Member

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    Sure posthumans are an integral part of Aleph (I would like to have a posthuman version in SP as well for that matters), but Posthumans are not linkable so you gain and you loose, but in general the loss is considerable because there is a lack of "creative bits". I agree that factions should have something to distinguish them, but once somebody does something (F34) you can bet whatever you want that somebody else will replicate it (Su-57 and J-20). Even more so when there is an AI listening to every word you say over whatever mean of communication you may have used... and all the more reasons when the archenemy of said AI has been included in the communication system. The AI is the elite tool here and there are risk/benefit calculations to be taken into account. Here I'm not saying that I would like to have an Ariadna version in purple and white, but what do you think an AI would choose as winning strategy between the Wehrmacht and the Red Army? The Sherman or the Tiger?

    I think it wouldn't choose either for a 100% commitment, but would rather go for a mix and match depending on need. That is something I would consider as a background-aligned consideration when designing Aleph troopers
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    For me a Line Troop is not the only “cheerleader”. That’s anything that’s: fairly cheap, provides a regular order, and not likely to do much in the game even if they are a specialist. It may or may not be hackable. Even “non-hackable” troops can be spotlighted for a missile bot.

    I’d say Irregular can be a cheerleader in some situations. But only if you have Command tokens to turn them into regular, OR you have a skill than changes them into Regular. Examples being Joan, Saladin, Liang Kia. But this all depends on the plans in your force and something you need to actively set up to happen.

    Now, having said all that, I tend to NOT use many “cheerleaders”. I don’t usually take “Rambo” type units that needs those orders. I like every troop to be useful for something other than just being an order. That usually means I’m using haris and duos and not 5-man cores.
     
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