Problem: you keep on starting from the wrong assumption and I suggest you start stopping this behaviour! I kept, from the 1st ever post on the topic of Aleph in N5, to repeat the same thing: lack of variability, Aleph risks to turn into a 1 trick pony... which reads also "I don't use deathstars" (which is the opposite of WAAC), also "I like to change lists" (which is the opposite of WAAC). I have no problem in loosing a match, I stopped playing chess when I started winning... which is the opposite of WAAC. The point is: I can loose and I want to have the possibility to change a list on its head without necessarily ending up in the same combinations because... because Aleph doesn't have options! And I believe Stiopa confirm that too in his detailed post on his ideas (he doesn't want another sectorial, yet he suggested not one, but 2 sectorials...). That being said: I am quite tired of discussing on one's belly button. The topic of this forum is "Aleph in N5" so if people has something to say on Aleph in N5 has all the freedom in this world to bring forth their opinion and for as much as I may disagree I would get really angry if somebody else, through direct action or the attempt to divert the main topic to something else (sending the discussion down the drain with or without further intention), was the reason that a contributor decided NOT to post. Answering is not a duty, but answering on point is definitely a good practice!
Can't help having ideas even if I don't think the game needs them :P If I understand your issue correctly, you're not complaining about Aleph's power level as much as one-dimentional list building and lack of fun factor. Let's look closer at this. Imagine you're going to a tournament, three rounds, Crossing Lines, Area of Interest, Uplink Center. What would be your lists? I'll make mine, let's compare and discuss.
On the issue of Devas, while one may think they're boring or lacking in Aleph, taken in context of other factions they're still quite good. They're one of the better hackers in ISS for example. WIP 15, BTS 3, and Immunity (isolated) on a hacker is no small thing! They may be dated and need a point cost adjustment/gear upgrades, but they're still quite elite.
Deva are good. Remarkably resilient with NWI. But do need shock immunity. Can't break the team with #2. Fantastic specialists. The sensor Deva automatically discovers camo with it and almost as good if just doing regular discover. I'm afraid anything more will just make them more expensive, because they are about right for the cost. The next step up is Yadu, who I do think could come down a little. They are essentially unhackable heavies. But expensive in an expensive faction.
I think the only Deva profile that I've never used is the MULTI rifle; They're all things except gunfighters, and that is OK. Yadu are expensive, but in Duos they can do a lot of things. Still not great gunfighters, though. If the Asura Spitfire was ever so slightly cheaper, it would fill that role wonderfully. I also would like to see better hacking projection in OSS, to fit the flavor of the omnipresent net. A Repeater Netrod (priced higher than regular Netrods) would allow having a preprositioned net presence in place as the forces arrive, and would be thematically different from Bandits, Morans and Linked X-Visor Pitchers.
I know the feeling, I am a Lean 6Sigma yellow belt for a reason. About the lists, not playing tourneys I'll take it as a beer&pretzel kinda tournament and I can already tell you that the lists will be different, but one thing won't change: Deva/Dakini/Yadu some REM for cheap orders/TA, certainly netrods and 2 or 3 posthumans. At least as far as OSS is concerned (button pressing OSS is better equipped) and with 2 long range to cover the lanes (figuratively because on my tables there are very little lanes) 2 or 3 haries of deva/deva/dakini or deva/dakini/dakini or deva/yadu duo or arjuna/kiran in a at least 15 orders list what changes is the loadout. The concept is the same: shoot the deva and the spec ops that are pretty squishy. I will humor you and give you 3 lists (should be 2 in a tourney) of a single sectorial as per tournament rules. As for the rest of the comments: you can see it yourselves that there are things to change. Law Dawg you say it yourself that Deva "They may be dated and need a point cost adjustment/gear upgrades"... to you it doesn't qualify as an elite piece that doesn't quite work to a full potential? Ergo Lame Duck like a US president without Congress/Senate support: the most powerful man on Earth that cannot make a single decision. StephanDahl some posts ago I said Asura is too expensive for what it brings compared to The Charontid, very nice idea of the Netrod 2.0. I would also add: nanoscreens... they seem to be a thing now and Aleph is late to the party and it might be an opportunity to compensate for lower ARM values (at the same point cost)
You missed the second part of my sentence, when I said "they're still quite elite". When I said they "may be dated" doesn't mean they necessarily are. As others have pointed out they're good, and doesn't need to change much. I just don't have experience playing with them in OSS as I don't play this faction. I'm here for the discussion because OSS is a sectorial with a lot of models and concepts I like.
The multi-rifle? That's different lol. Most that I know use the hackers because they are so good for that. I don’t think Deva were ever meant to be amazing shooters. But I don’t think the BS12 average is bad. Deva were LI Line Troops and slowly became MI Veterans. They are “Face” of Aleph. I have NOT played this, but I’m very interested in trying it out in OSSS. The HD of course. FO. WIP15 Flash Pulse thank you very much Sensor Deva because it’s a near auto discover. WP15 +6 (sensor) +3 Fireteam. And Triangulated fire is a lot better than it used to be. Spitfire for punch with MSV2 Then Dakini HMG for range but also to give the team Sixth Sense. If not a HMG then a Paramedic for missions using secret objectives. The third option is giving up the SS to take a Riksha HRL. In vAleph, I’m almost always going to take a hacker just because it’s very good for the price. The only profile I don’t like is the Devabot. It’s just a plain Deva with combi. It’s not worth it to add the Devabot. If it was a hacker or something I’d be likely. Especially if a KHD and they can both Cybermask. But I think it's a profile that could go away and no one would notice.
Shock imm would be good but that would make them expansive. Older Aleph profiles lack shock imm. I would give myrm off shock imm and new dasyus to make them real pia. But I have the feeling we have too much shock imm on nwi in the game. Anyway Deva are good and got cheaper already. MR profile is just bloat. To be honest most of the time I took SF / MSV Deva because Asura is to expensive and all ither MSV 2 in Aleph lack high burst. Marut is something you have to build a list around. N3xt Deva I took is lt.. i never took sensor on its own for dicovering only. Last Deva I would take is lt with bot for some missions that requires well protected lt. Never took hacker. They are good, but I prefer Danavas, Asura or Yadu. For pitcher, lt +2 or warhorse. Oh or Proxy hacker because cheap n good.
I just got in my Proxies in the mail yesterday. The latest of them. I've yet to use them but i've hardly played Aleph so far. But they feel like one of those Faction Defining troops.
Triangulated fire on sensor Deva is icing on top of general utility. It's great for when facing mods stacked against you. I once used triangulated fire (on Major Lunah, not Deva) to take down a damaged Red Eye.
Triangulated Fire can be great. Unfortunately the majority that have it is combi-rifles. Only ISS has things like Lunah with V Sniper, E/Mitter, Breaker Combi, and Multi-Rifle. But in a pinch and already have LoS it's great since they changed it to no mods at all. Being able to shoot a Combi up to 48" with no mods is kind of shocking lol. Oh and the Fennec Thunderbolt.
Space Ranger you hit the nail in the head. Asking our available AI about what makes an Elite corp the answer was: "Elite troops in modern warfare typically distinguish themselves from regular forces through stricter selection processes, specialized training, and access to superior or more modern equipment, though the gap in gear is not always absolute. While regular infantry units often receive standard-issue weaponry and may be manned by conscripts or volunteers with basic readiness, elite conventional units (such as the US Marines, Royal Marines, or Soviet/Russian Guards divisions) are frequently better equipped with the most modern tanks, armored vehicles, and force multipliers like night vision devices and advanced communication systems." Of course tanks are not a thing of Infinity, but force multipliers are. Combi rifle and Rifle are the standard weapon in the game, I think already a Multi rifle would be different. A step farther would be a Multi weapon in general: an Elite corp that has, more or less, the same access to ammunition is a bit limiting. Mind you Deva are capable at different things, although in need of bonuses on hacking being elite (they get access to better training and better equipment although the gap in gear is not always absolute), still they need to defend themselves. Concerning "vision devices" and comm systems I won't advocate for a faction-wide MSV1 because it'd probably be a bit too much, but X-vis and Biometric-vis can be given a bit more generously. Same consideration applies on HD: either HD and bonuses or HDP (much like Danavas that in my opinion embody the idea of an elite hacker... maybe a Multi rifle or an option with Multi rifle?)
I can get behind Combis being upgraded to Multi-Rifle but there will be at least a point increase. But MR can be worth it. I've found having 3 different forms of ammo is fantastic.
Part of Aleph's elite status comes from a good general statline. Using hackers as example, having on average +1/2 WIP on opposing hackers and other targets is a significant advantage, even if not as flashy a one as having a special skill. What they could use is higher BTS, particularly Danavas and skirmishers. Another fun while situational advantage could be having Immunity (Targeted) on some units, particularly those for which being able to slip through any sensor and targeting network is a good fit. Dasyu come to mind. Devas are a pretty basic troop and that's ok tbh. If they'd to get anything, it should be MOV 6-2 to better keep pace with the Remotes. It would be nice to see them getting Multis, but as you mentioned, it'd mean a point hike. I'd say, leave both Combi and Multi options as they are, give Multi to TF/Sensor loadout, it might actually use it, and equip hackers and FO with SMGs to keep costs under control.
What you say Stiopa is particularly true in view of the "elite training" (although one should consider maxima of stats, WIP15 in very high, but not the top and an AI should consider that in modifying the troops when facing something stronger). Changing points then should be considered on the basis of comparisons with similar troops and troops roles: The profile of Danavas, for as much as it is a hacker, doesn't seem to have a fixed Hacking Device (like it was meant to have more than 1 profile of specialist and it should), but also the point difference seems a bit too narrow in my opinion (CC+2, BS+1, PH+1, WIP-1, dodge, FT master, NWI and a measly +7pts). The SP counterpart is more similar to Pandora: Only Thamyris doesn't join a Fireteam. Scylla is more versatile (with the Caribdis FTO) but she has WIP13. For the Devas I may agree with Stiopa for MOV, I would personally add MULTI profiles rather than swap. The technological gap may not always be visible, but that means anything from often to sometimes and what I see now is very occasionally and with no impact on FO or hacker. [Disregard the Umbra profile]
Honor where honor is due: GenCon seminar with Thamyris new mini and Operation Mazebreaker with OSS (showed an Asura artwork...)... thing is: is it going to be Dakini again? Dakini, Yadu, Shukra and Naga sniper where in the previous one... still considering that there is a substantial release for Next Wave I will be satisfied when we get the beyond Mazebreaker and more
Normally they use battle boxes to provide two startes with a bonus. Minis are a mix of new troops and resculpts. What we don't need is a third flavor of Dakini (or Alguas). A new Asura with SF is a welcoming resculpt, hopfully accompanied by an updated profile. I like to see a Dasyu a Garuda FO, the Asura and some new things, maybe troops from the reinforcement box. Maybe they skip the line tropps
I really hope for something new (and they better) Because Dakini were released with Coldfront. Dasyu I reckon is a must and Asura apparently is Spitfire according to artwork That seems a Mobile Brigata
