Satrah are elite, in the same boat as Arjuna. Also Arjuna (thank god it's FTO...) is not even linkable in vAleph. Heck there's not even a wildcard list in vAleph outside of reinforcements. The one sensible team in vAleph is Maximus and Artalis K1 combi engineer (not saying there aren't any other, just that it's the most sensible. For example Riksha/Artalis is another one, but then you've run out of Artalis). In this example, in order to keep the eyes off Maximus, one can pick an Asura, but only with spitfire because there's no hacker/Lt option. Hidden in a manner of speaking, because a keen eye will spot the lack of 2Lt orders (Asura) vs. the 1Lt orders (Maximus)... so no: you're not hiding it this way. An alternative could be Deva Triang.fire/sensor/Lt (combi rifle... in the aforementioned elite faction, not even a MULTI rifle) which could hide Maximus as Lt. Still I don't understand how it is possible that a Yadu(MI) has ARM3 and a Deva(MI) ARM2...
In vAleph my favorite team is a Sophie and Dawon haris. They work fantastic together. Both move 6-4, Sophie fixes Dawon if needed, they protect her. They run around doing missions. For the few times I played him I ran Max on his own but wished I had the Artalis near by. But he would also be good with a TA Daleth. The Daleth gives him repeater coverage, a specialist, Sensor of course. It gives so much for so little of a price. A Deva hacker would be good but I think might as well do the hacking through a Daleth. Yadu is not bad but expensive. BTW I think there should be more HD+. Only two in vAleph and OSS is not enough. They could give one to the Deva for vAleph and OSS only. This way it doesn’t show up in ISS or Neoterra. Satrah would be another good one. If not that, then an upgrade of White Noise would be good. I think they should have an Uber Killer Hacker (character?) too. One who's job it is to take down troops like Charontid, Anathematics, and Interventors. WIP15, BTS9, Trinity +1 B or SD, and SR -1, Sixth Sense and Combat Instinct. But little to no ARM and Weapons. Essentially a better version of the Danavas.
Daleth&Max is interesting, but you can still have the repeater of a Danavas (pitcher) and an Artalis in DUO. Probably not as point efficient as the Daleth that also brings +1 order effetively. I see you too @Space Ranger are dipping your toe in the pool of what's missing. Still I think we are also missing some cheap impetuous (I suggested Furies for SP in another forum that can have some vengeance mechanism too) that could justify the vCA strategy of 2 big pieces and a bunch of orders... at the moment this is hindered by the lack of cheap orders.
I’ve busted pitcher rolls with my Cyberghost who has the same BS. The Daleth is fast, reliable, efficient and can do more. I always forget they have Climb+ too. I’m not sure on cheap orders though. We do have Netrods AVA3, which I wish I had in O12 or YJ. I’d rather the expensive stuff just be better. Like a 2 Vita, NWI heavy infantry. Or better yet, a 3 Vita HI that’s only S2 (Aleph answer to Mobile Brigada and Gamma). Or bring the Hoplites into vAleph but I’d want something that can go into OSSS. I’m pretty positive Aleph will get a flyer at some point. How could they not?
A name pops to mind: Tohaa aka "how to make a bad choice to justify a bad strategy with a good tool". Now let's see if it's true that the lightning doesn't strike twice in the same spot... Fair point on the Daleth and the rest, still I wouldn't mind an impetuous smoke tosser for below 15 so that one can choose between a Myrmidon and the aforementioned, changing the surrounding list to taste.
I doubt Aleph would get a smoke thrower under 15pts that’s not irregular and/or impetuous. Pretty much like all other factions. I think Aleph is doing fine by having 16pt Myrm who’s regular, Mim -6, and Frenzy. My Varangian are 3pts cheaper but vastly inferior to a Myrm. The only one that’s as good is the Daturazi at 14pts but they are mim -3, Impetuous, and No Cover. Other than the Dat is Denma Connolly who’s AVA1. Aleph is also lucky enough to have it on Penny and Hippo.
Don't ask for the same capabilities that other factions have, executed in the same way. This will end with factions being reskins instead of an actual choice. Ask for having those capabilities either being substituted with something else, or provided in a different way. Case in point, PanO. Which still has no Smoke, exactly one source of Eclipse - 40 pts cheapest - and if not for the Fennec available in Kestrel and Vanilla it'd have no Disco Ball cheaper than 20-something points. And it functions just fine, and would do so even without Fennecs. What I think is that Aleph should lean into its elite side and faction strengths and get its ability to counter assymetrical plays bolstered. Some ideas: New sectorial With EI dominion getting a place in Human Sphere I can see two possible and not mutually exclusive ways to go about it. 1) A joint Aleph-CA sectorial, falling under Aleph control, with both sides being perfectly aware that this is a way for both of them to spy on each other (I also expect some unwritten agreement made behind the scenes that Aleph and HS being used as a control group instead of just another conquered processing node is better aligned with EI ultimate goal). This would allow some space for Aleph to get a bit freaky and have some really unique stuff contained here, with some of these making their way into vanilla. 2) A NA2 of hardcore Aleph/HS puritans stating that they didn't fight and die for this, possibly led by Odysseus (whom I fully expect to resurface at some point). There could be some hints that Aleph actually supports them in a deniable way, treating this as another string to her bow should things go sideways. It'd be a space where Aleph, human, and hijacked CA tech could mix, and where some SP personalities, both current and lost (like Diomedes) could show up. As a side note, continued existence of SP is a non-issue, Humans going "sure, we're buddies now, but we're keeping this as an insurance policy", and CA going "k, fair (just as I predicted)". Total awareness: A good theme when it comes to AI in fiction is the ability to gather and process data in quantity and with speed unmatched by any other entity, especially human one. In gameplay terms it could be represented by increased availability of Combat Instinct, Sixth Sense, and 360v, making it harder to outflank and surprise the usually outnumbered Aleph assets (part of what I've stated earlier about it having the tools to combat assymetric warfare). Additional Sensor options could be a part of this, too. Always connected: Aleph has a number of good hackers, but always lacked a good Repeater coverage, this being their weakness compared to Nomads, who excel at hacking area projection. But while Nomads project it as intruders - at range, with Pitchers - Aleph units should have that capability built in, more of a defensive tool. There should be more units, both as a whole or as a single loadout option, equipped with Repeaters, carrying the net and defense capability of their hackers with them. Units like K2 or Devas could get such option, for example. I'd even put it on Netrods, opening some interesting tactical choices there, or give some infiltrators, like Nagas, such an option. As part of the same, I'd expand Aleph's EVO depth and width. Aleph, together with CA and PanO, should really have increased access and capabilities here. And finally, there should certainly be more cases of Firewall/ECM (Hacker) on Aleph units, not widespread, but strategically placed on several assets. CC defense: As part of that ability of defending itself against assymetrical warfare I'd expand Aleph's access to Para CCWs (anywhere from -3 to -9 on more expensive and valuable units), making it much less attractive an option to try and tie them down in CC with a cheap warband. I'd throw NBW on several units as well, for the same reason. Actual MA I'd keep largely contained in SP. ------------------------------ The desired effect would be keeping Aleph an elite-style force, but making its units better able to defend and support each other, forcing opposing players to either choose their attack vectors more carefully to isolate and defeat Aleph's units in detail, or to look for ways to go after its backline and order pool.
I understand where you come from, but I doubt that asking for 1 trooper, Impetuous smoke tosser at <15pts will qualify as rebranding a different faction. Armies in modern warfare have different roles: the American Rangers (they have their own regiment) are similar, but not equal to Italian Incursors (Paratroopers regiment) and yet American army has foot soldiers like Italy does... and it isn't just a different uniform. That being said it's true and I concur that Aleph should keep the elite nature of its forces. Reason for which the comparison stands because sometimes (and the comparison highlighted that) elite is just a word and not mirrored in the facts. I sectorial with CA... I dunno, but personally I don't particularly like it. In the past I said something along the line of Bureau Thoth being a joint sectorial between O12 and Aleph, which in my personal opinion makes more sense (and being CA in O12 helps keeping the intelligence nature of the sectorial without being compromised openly). As for NA2 I see the Non Aligned as a way to give people the possibility to play just mercs like in other games out there, but I believe it ends there. I see more something highly covert, specialised in sabotage and false flag operations, something that Aleph made outside of prying eyes (an AI doesn't need funding, it has complete control of the financial system and can literally make money from thin air)... heck, even on an inhabitable planet! Total awareness and Always connected: Yes, absolutely! I'll raise: I don't understand why all REM are not made repeater... ok maybe not all of them, but some definitely should. The concept of complementarity is another I second all the way: I would really like to see some explicit sinergy. CC defence: I am not able to understand what are you trying to get to... we have para CCW and I can understand the usage, but... meh...
I don't know if you meant to, but please don't downplay the important aspect of the request. Smoke and other vision control is some of the most powerful rules in the game. It is even more when you have good MSV shooters. It can be faction defining and N5 has made smoke shooting extremely good with the revision of sixth sense. When you ask for this to be available in OSS, that is a huge thing. Heck, the 16point Myrmidon and Marut combo in vAleph is big thing. Edit: To make clear, I am saying that such a change would be monumental and change Aleph significantly. You shouldn't do it haphazardly and has a greater impact then you imply. For instance, Vanilla CA losing AVA on R drones and Ikadrons going up 2 points was a fundamental change.
I didn't say it wasn't, but consider that if you had another option (and this is the keyword: another) you could spend more points elsewhere. If we keep on blocking combinations (because there are no alternatives) the rest of the lists is gonna be... guess what? exactly the same so even elsewhere "another option" wouldn't be so bad: Max&Artalis(ENG) is a good combo that blocks out 99pts Marut&Myrm is another good combo that blocks out 102pts (86+16) Max&Daleth is a very interesting combo that blocks out 94pts The Charontid(plasma)&Daturazi blocks out 81pts The Anatematic&Daturazi...87pts The 2 CA big guys cost less than Marut and Max (and honestly I would suggest some reconsideration because it's not balanced, meaning: CA is underpaying), but apart from that: ohu-em-gee! CC+2, MAL4, Berserk and DACCW (PS=-1). From 2 to 6 pts less... shall we talk about it? Thank you Broken Wolf, I was missing the comparison for the Myrm that I'm sorry to say, needs a point reduction and in case: there you have it! Smoke tosser for less than 15pts! Daturazi are linkable like Myrms... only Myrms for a max of 4, Daturazi are a 5-men core (in Morat list obviously). Back on the keywords: another option is something fundamental that, as of today, most Aleph lists don't have because we have a low trooper count and for some of them even the low number of options. Lists are made with 300pts (typically) not with troop names.
Again you are thinking one for one when the whole faction needs to be taken into account. vAleph has very high level shooting with smoke. Myrm is good cheap smoke in a faction with MSV2 Multi-HMG BS15 TAG and MSV3 BS14 Asura Spitfire. Not to mention Agema MSV2 with MSR and ML with a BS13. If you start adding in cheap smoke, it’s going to make those troops OP. Everything is a balancing act. This is why the whole faction needs to be taken into account. Changing one troop changes another in some way. You are comparing a troop that can only put down smoke and kill stuff in CC (Daturazi), while Myrm is actually a really good gunfighter with his Mim -6 and Spitfire or even Combi. He even gets cover for at least the turn in which he kills something. They can also have a hacker with Stealth. While true it's expensive, it's still available. The Daturazi needs to spend .5 SWC for a combi! Myrms get a Spitfire for 1! Also I have never seen anyone put a Daturazi into more than a Duo. Especially a 5-man core. Personally, I don’t see them getting cheap smoke throwers when they have Myrm. But hey, you can hope. If a smoke chucker is added I think I’d like something like the JSA Garon with the Smoke G Launcher (but better BS). I can see the Rudra getting Discoballer.
And you are taking a faction when the whole game has issues! The points wall you so cheerfully bring forward lock you on the rest of the list that cannot have anything else then some REMs, maybe a core team in OSS, or a haris in vAleph, but for 100pts less because your oh so powerful options just need a good roll to sit you on your ass. All the while the combinations are locked because you only have 1 smoke tosser (a "really good gunfighter" with +1BS to a space ape that does what an impetuous smoke tosser is supposed to do: screen and provide order for cheap... same game balancing act that brings a combi to 0.5SWC to a unit that doesn't even need it and will never get it because a Chain rifle +1B is so much more effective). To go on with the game balancing act really all you can come up is sterile criticism? There is no creative impulse, just take 1 sentence, generalize the heck out of it, extremize it till it has nothing more of the original concept... speaking to the guts, like Greek philosophers knew all to well, only gets you so far. Certainly won't change a thing in a faction that behind the curtain of the ELITE has been stripped of nearly everything: shall we forget that Thorakitai had 360 visors? now somebody would like them back... funny man... Myrmidons had NWI, but hey can't sell PanO if it doesn't win right? And so Elite is the shell, but the inside is empty and how are we gonna see it? By comparison. And all the while the troopers were stripped of skills they didn't nearly loose a point (and to the next sterile critic: I said NEARLY). Now go play with your deathstar combo: when they learn to kill it you won't have anything else to throw at them. Rule no 1 of infinity: don't get attached to your minis: they will die!
All games have issues. If you don't like it, I'm sorry but that's the way it is. Work with or around it but against it is like beating your head on a wall. If your goal is to win instead of having fun, then you are going to have a lot of headaches. I was like you with Yu Jing for a long time and didn't have fun and almost quit playing. But then started playing O12 and had fun again. Now finally YJ is not bad. I'm not sure why some say vYJ is A tier but it's good. ISS is not A tier but it's fun and I've bee playing since the re-set of them.
He's actually asking what your motives are for playing, not trying to explain it. Why such aggression?
Aggression? And no, there are statements, no questions "If your goal is to win... I was like you" Implies conclusions based on assumptions that are not rooted in facts, but on personal interpretation of text. Actually I should add: the second paragraph implies that Space Ranger has found the way to only win with O12 because he could not win with YJ and is suggesting to find a faction that makes you win maybe like Bakunin? (it is undeniable that Torchlight came out as the local space marine...) This is to demonstrate how conclusions based on air lead a discussion. Now we can continue to talk about Aleph which I think is more important than talking about one's own belly buttons!
Mate, the problem is that you're so passionate about the issue that it does feel aggressive whether you intend it or not. It's just a game and nothing to get on each other's throats about. Also, check some of the things you're stating; for example Myrmidons never had NWI. Myrm Officers did and still have it (Thorakites did lose their skills though, and I agree that that was uncalled for). Aleph's issue is actually similar to one PanO had at some point; the game changed, and faction strenghts aren't as pronounced as they were before. For PanO it was shooting and TAGs; between N2 and N4 other factions got significantly better at both, while PanO was kinda left hanging, until CB started to give them more width over the last two years or so. It's similar for Aleph, they are an elite faction,but other factions started getting more powerful units, while having more wide faction designs than Aleph. I expect a lot of this to get adressed once CB will get around to releasing the next book, which by the way feels like it'll be the Human Sphere N5. And I fully admit that they're taking their sweet time with it, which I do hope will get reflected in the quality of its content. Back to Aleph, one thing I definitely would like to see adressed is their link team composition. Phalanx is mostly fine, it'd be nice to see some units getting (Thorakitai) tag. OSS teams look somewhat unwieldy, though, and in particular Devas could get more fireteam tags.
