No, it is still bad science, because you are cherry picking figures from separate sources that contradict other figures in other sources which you ignore, only choosing convenient figures in order to support your pre-existing conclusion. None of that is how real science works, it IS however exactly the methodology people putting together bad science excuses for racism or sexism regularly use. But I'm sure when you do it it is different.
Hypothetically @Eldritch , what would you do if @Section9's sources were reliable? I don't think that it is a bold claim that smashing arse is less hygenic than smashing pussy, nor is it a bold claim that men are more violent than women. These would manifest in increased STI incidence groups with higher arse smashing incidence (like homosexual men), and increased violence in partnerships with more men in them (like male-male relationships). Even if it were true (it probably is), it doesn't mean it would be OK to go persecuting gays for it, as arse smashing and domestic violence are not universal to, exclusive to or requirements of homosexuality. But let's not pretend it's not a bigger issue for specific populations.
I think I've just found my new Quoted Signature*, Thanks the huanglong. :) *Who needs context? It's more fun this way.
One of a handful of solidly provable points in psych research: 20 years ago, this was called Confirmation Bias. IIRC, my better half was studying for counseling license renewal " WTF?!? They changed the name of Confirmation Bias." Another less well documented point: persecuting bigots on the basis of their bigotry just drives the jackasses underground. I want them to feel perfectly comfortable spouting their bullshit. Then, we have two choices: 1. Try to reason with them or 2. You can shine a giant spot light on their stupidity.
Hypothetically if say, his actual claim that gay people are (in some unspecified way) bad parents based on "a government study" that was totally good science (despite him declaring it to have had an intended forgone conclusion, and then despite him declaring its methodology flawed as well) was indicative of a broad scientific consensus based on real world data instead of a cherry picked and deeply reinterpreted outlier if even that then in that hypothetical world I would already have known about it. Not because I have any sort of super human knowledge abilities, but because I take a tiny amount of personal effort to be informed about politics and relevant science and statistics. I've seen plenty of material on this over the years. His claim bucks the trend. It might be founded in a legitimate study... that somehow also had a flawed premise and flawed methodology according even to him, but then it's just an outlier, you get that. But considering the nature of his claims, the politics of his claims, the track record of those who share those politics to make deeply flawed scientific claims in this and many similar topics in very much the same way, and most of all the honest to god sheer crazy bordering on medieval alchemy unfounded theorizing he then veers of into to further justify it... I don't think this is a hypothetical worth even entertaining. Its an offensive homophobic screed that might occasionally contain snippets of barely related fact, but its wildly bad science and only proves things about the person ranting about the totes scientific proof he has that butt sex makes you into an inherently bad parent, partner and person.
@Eldritch I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding @Section9 's point. Anal sex *does* stand a much higher chance of STI transmission, that's just a fact - but if you were to use that information to say imply that gay men were inherently immoral due to their involvement in this kind of sexual activity, that would be hateful. And that's the difference.
That isn't his point, its a (highly conditionally) true fact he has inserted into a rant about how gay men shouldn't be allowed to have families because of his exciting personal theory that gay sex makes them anti-social. Go back and look at everything else he has said surrounding that and related to that. He has not simply been saying "well, (unprotected) anal sex is marginally more dangerous for transmitting (some) diseases!" he has thrown that in between "Gays are bad parents" and "Gays can't have stable relationships" and "Gay sex makes you angry" That is exactly how bad science is used to "prove" racism and the ilk. You cherry pick a few things like that and sprinkle them through your crazy bigotry and pretend it's all true.
O.K. this devolved totally into even weirder territory, first from "Kempeitai is a bad name", then to thrown around "R.W. Political Issues" and now we devolve into "Gay Sex Pro and Cons". . .?? I don't think that @Section9 is actively homophobic or trying to gather a "Omosexual Burning Crusade", but SOME of its points need to be considered carefully and not just refuted "Just Because". . . It is a very important pet peeve for Me and I think it could be good to discuss it in a whole different media; I staid silent when it was in the "Yujing / J.S.A." thread but as very WISELY Psychoticstorm ported it there in the Off-Topic then I could offer my (totally unsolicited) two cents. . . It is weird to make "Coming Out" in a Miniature Wargame Site that I frequent as I love the Artistic Style and the "Evolved Cyberpunk" Universe, but ANY Place and ANY Time could be good to go (and I'm also covered by an Alias Nickname and few personal infos, but I would gladly discuss further by P.M. with anyone interested in an open-minded exchange of opinions !!). . . . . . . . WARNING; Some of the "Spoilered Informations" could be found distasteful by some persons, so read them at Your own risk. . . I daresay repeat, the content is for VERY Mature and Open Minded people. . . Spoiler: Personal Sexual, Psychological and Anathomic Infos I'm a 40 Years old Italian Male, reasonably athletic and attractive and I'm Bisexual / Pansexual, gladly going with Partners of the Opposite Sex, the same Sex and even something in between (I went with an awesome Transexual Ladyboy, that underwent so many Cosmetic Surgery to be like a gorgeous Young Woman Model, but with a Big Dick, and it was sexually fantastic as casual sex meeting goes !!). . . To put it VERY bluntly I love to sucking cocks AS MUCH as licking pussies, and with Anal Sex I'm equally willing to have it and receive it (and not only with other Males, My ex-fiancèè, a very kinky Austrian Woman, was very fond of using a Big Dildo Strap On when the fancy hit Her and I know some of Her women acquaintances shared the same fantasy). . . And with all the fondness for Sexual Penetrations, Vaginal and Anal BOTH, I'm quite expert on Medical and Anathomical Problems (I'm a trained Red Cross Paramedic, Basic Level Triage, and My best friend is a Rectal / Male Genitalia Medical Expert and Surgeon) and for ANY kind of Sexual Penetration and ESPECIALLY Anal, I'm EXTREMELY Paranoid. . . The Anus zone are ripe with Fecal Coli-Bacteria and there are a lot of Skin Folds in the Sphincter that are extremely dangerous as "Culture Areas" so I have NEVER had Unprotected Sex there, either Passive on My Ass or Active in someone Else's. . . I always use Latex Condoms that are costomized for Anal Sex (sometime even two, one on top of the other) and employ A LOT OF LUBE, as the Anal Area is NOT NATURALLY LUBRICATED as for Women's Vagina (or Mouths, for who like Oral Sex as much as I do !!); there are a lot of risks even between two steady partners that are sure to be "Venereally / Sexually Transmitted" Disease Free, as the friction is extremely Violent, especially during quite passionate intercourses, and could generate also a lot of Heat that wil ruin quickly Unlubed Condoms and that could open micro-lesions in the Active Penis or in the Passive Anal Channel, where Bacterias will gladly fester and cause all manner of infections. . . DO NOT BELIEVE all the various Porn Videos abounding in the Net that shows Unprotected Casual Anal Penetration as easy as a Vaginal Sex; the Performers are usually very expert Pornstars and Actors that have A LOT OF Training for It, usually they perform One or Two "Enema Squirting" to clean the Anal Duct, they use a lot of Vaseline or Water-Based frictionless Lubricants to ease the continued penetration and also some of them have "Calloused Anus" and "Thick-Skinned Dicks" due to continued performing. . . Myself BEFORE allowing something in My ass (and it never was Penetrated by the "Monster Cocks" You see on the Porn Videos, at max it was a 20 cm. of Lenght for a max. width of 4-5 com., and it was a Soft Rubber Dildo !!) had performed a lot of "Kegel Anathomical Exercises" (created to ease Natural Birth for Women, but very useful to train ALL the Muscles of the Pelvic Zone to relax and be resistant) and used Latex Gloves with Lube to auto-administer one or tow finger "Relaxing Massages" I have to concur partially with @Section9 assessment that the Anal Area Penetration is usually a very "Violent Act" (even between two willing partners in Love and that are gentle and caring) as is the Anathomical "Muscle Memory" response of the Body Structure, ingrained in ANY Mammals Genome, is to KEEP Outside something that wants to enter. . . Some Passive Partners do it for the love of the Active one, as they totally feel some discomfort at plus and not any kind of "Pleasure Sensation" but others instead start to grow fond of it; I personally found the Penetration of My Ass quite pleasing after the initial "Closed Sphinctere Istinct Reaction" but I know other partners need to be stimulated elsewhere in their body to achieve a mutual, satysfying Climax. . . I do not mind occasional Pain, but also on top of being Bi / Pan - Sexual then I like also B.D.S.M. with occasional Spanking and Whipping (done Actively and received Passively) so I could be biased for this; it was not one of My partners, but I know a Girl that suffered a lot of pain for Anal Sex and nonetheless performed it, with careful attention, for Her boyfriend because She really liked to be caressed and cuddled after His climax (a very weird phrasing, I know, but She said "The Sudden Absence of Pain is ALMOST an Orgasm in Itself !!). . . . . . . . As for the "Psychological Issues" of Gay Men (and some Lesbian too) I could ONLY speak about the problems of Italians, as being raised in a Cultural Society where "Old Testament Biblical Catholicism" is quite a burden, not only on True Believers, but also on the opposite "Church Haters" (usually Leftist Hipster Scions of rich, posh High-Middle Class families) and this generate a poisonous Atmosphere of "Hidden Gay Activism" that I personally believe is very counter-productive to "TRUE" well-balanced L.G.B.T. Activism. . . I have NEVER met a well-balanced Gay Male that was interested in Me and had the gall to openly ask Me; they were all full of Innuendos, unsaid things and thinly-veiled clumsy attempt at "Seduction Test" Me; I was very offended when an Older Man, after trying to befriend Me on shared interests started with suspicious "Gifts" and "Presents" ("I don't really need this Stuff; better You have it than I throw it in the Trash !!") before claiming "As You have no actual Girlfriend SURELY You MUST be One of Us !!". . . Some Italian Eterosexual dismiss Gay and Lesbians as "Poor Mental Deficents" (or even worse "They Are Born Wrong Somehow" !!) and in response some "Closet Omosexual" retorts with stupid claims like "All Straight Males are JUST Repressed Gay" or "Any Woman is a Lesbian at Heart". . . I personally do not care if You like to Fuck the Other Sex, the Same Sex, another Sex in between, a Rubber Doll or a Goat (providing the Goat is not forced and raped !!) SO LONG YOU ARE A DECENT PERSON THAT CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY; as well I do NOT CARE if You are fair-skinned, dark-skinned, red-skinned, yellow-skinned or blue-skinned and I DO NOT CARE If You pray Javeh, Allah, Buddha, Kwanza, Emperor Xenu, Santa Claus, the Grinch, the Totem Spirits or if You are a Total Agnostic Unbeliever. . . It is a problem of "Closet Mentality" that raises barrier, but I DO NOT CARE; I know Straight Persons that are (or will be, if they just bothered to ask !!) of My Pan-Sexuality; as wel as GAY and LESBIANS that claims ALL BI / PAN are Bitches, Pornstar Wannabe or "People Too Coward To Take A Side" !! But even if I do not usually frequent Gay Bars with assidious frequency or go marching in Pride Parades with the Face painted with "Rainbow Colours" then I count Myself a very open-minded (and "open-assed" pardon the vulgar pun) Normal Man. . . In fact I JUST know Gay Men (especially insecure youngsters that fancy themselves as "Far, Far More Sensible and Artistic Than YOU !!") that are closet hidden, frequent passing and fleeting intercourses (some of them are EVEN Bethrothed and with an Engagement Ring) and keep all the stereotypes of the "Hysterical Faggots" that blunt, thickheaded "Straightness Defenders" like so much to target. . . Is almost as if they willingly closed themselves in a corner. . . I don't give a shit; I don't walk around with an All-Yellow / All-Pink dress ensemble (in fact I love Dark Hued vestements and Biker Gear) but at the same time will openly admit WHO I am (and WHO I like to fuck !!) to anyone that will bother to ask, without assuming wrong ideas from a superficial appearance. . . I think that the Personal Informations that I disclosed would make some Forumites think far less of Me, but I will NOT GIVE A SHIT to the Opinion of People that does not want to discuss with an open mindset while gladly accepting the Negative Answers of ANYONE that will say "Sorry, but I do NOT condivide Your Opinion because. . . . .!!"
To what? I like to say: Don't ban swastikas, that way when I see one I know who to watch out for, instead of having to keep tabs with constantly evolving extremist symbolism.
Going back to that, again, Swastika is a symbol that all cultures have for a few millennia before the nazi party decided to use it for WW2 Germany and personally I feel extremely offended that people think it has to be banned or that people think using it means you are a facist. Now if you talk exactly about the precise flag of the Nazi Germany it is another discussion, but the symbol in any way shape or form other than this exact configuration is not the symbol everybody burdens it for.
I assumed that one was obvious so I didn't even mention religious/ancient context. Sorry. I did mean the Nazi version specifically, I feel like banning the symbolism is just sweeping it under the carpet and not addressing the underlying extremism or resulting problems. Ban the swastika? Sure, they'll just switch to the Celtic cross, or Thor's hammer, or runes, or 14/88, and good luck banning all of that and the subsequent versions, and it'll just smear the baggage across a much wider area, which I don't think anyone needs. It's like closing a Tarrasque thread, all you'll do is cause the creation of a few new ones and make your own job harder. Better to have the enemy tell you what they're doing.
You are welcome @Knauf. . . As I said beforehand I'm always ready to discuss these very sensible issues with anyone interested, ESPECIALLY if they are Persons very different from Me, and that have a Totally, Radically different life-view than Me, but they are willing to discuss in an open manner. . . In fact I prefer people that strongly, vehemently disagree with My choices, but just because THEIR FREEDOM is expressed in another polarly opposite (or just far different) manner, than people that claims to be "More-Or-Less Akin to My Worldview, But. . ." !! It is with "Similar, But. . .!!" that many problems of miscommunication arise. . . Never would have thought that I would have discussed such personal topics in a Cyberpunk Wargame Forum, but I'm glad to have done it, as usually the Openness Level of the Infinity Forumites is far superior to supposedly "Important Social Blogs" elsewhere. . . Even when there are virulently diverse opinions and strongly defended "Personal Ideas" the debate is useful rather than harmful. . .!!
Well, it was a bit uncomfortable to read at times but that's only because it's presented in such a brutally honest way, when most of us are used to talk about sexual subjects in a more "hushed" manner, or perhaps that's just a mental leftover from being raised in a conservative household. Still, I only have respect for people who are being straight (*ba-dum-tish*) with who they are and what they belief in. Certainly takes a lot more conviction and balls to stand up for who you are than being bitter over the interwebz because someone, somewhere, is not having sex they way they perceive to be the "proper" way. The term "normal", regarding sexuality just needs to die off to be honest, every person have their own kink, special turn ons and what ever.
@Zewrath. . . I could not subscribe more to Your last phrase, it should be proudly written, and worn, on a T-Shirt. . .!!
@Eldritch he can believe all those things, some of which are bad science, but unless he actually acts gratefully towards the people in question there's a gulf in between what you're saying about him and what he's doing.
Just asked -- and she totally forgets! This -- 100K times! @Pierzasty already covered that pretty soon, there won't be any cultural element, icon etc, etc that hasn't been drug through the mud. Let me add -- 100% sarcastically -- Great! Then we can design a brand new, perfect culture :D
