This has been an issue time and time again, with a new and shiny forum I'd like to figure this out once and for all. First of all Guts rolls are inheritly mandatory. Requirements Several events can force a troop to make a Guts Roll: Passing one or more ARM or BTS Rolls. Failing one or more ARM or BTS Rolls, but not remaining in a Null or Immobilized state. Surviving one or more successful Attacks from weapons, types of Equipment or Hacking Programs with the Non-Lethal Trait, or that do not provoke ARM or BTS Rolls. Then there is Courage and Religious which explicitly modify how Guts Rolls work. VALOR LEVEL 1. COURAGE EFFECTS V: Courage allows its user to choose the outcome of any of his own Guts Rolls. Lasty there are Symbiomates which "avoid having to perform a Guts Roll". SYMBIOMATE EFFECTS Using a SymbioMate also avoids having to perform a Guts Roll in that same Order. My local Tohaa players read this as "if you use the Mate you are not forced to make a Guts Roll" as in: use Mate - never Roll for Guts. Which also is the reading I agree with. In my last two tournaments however some Tohaa players argued it basically gives free Courage. For some reason I'm incapable to see how "avoids having to perform" a mandatory Roll sounds like it is optional, but you never know I might be wrong. So which one is it? No Guts Roll at all with Symbimate or free Courage when using a Symbiomate?
'Avoids having to make' would make it optional. 'Avoids making' would mean that Guts Rolls aren't made at all.
"Having to make" is the natural state of Guts Rolls though - you're forced to make those. To have to do something is not optional, it's obligatory. Avoiding to do something obligatory should prevent it entirely, what part of the language suggests to you there is the option to make a Guts Roll as normal? 'Not having to do something' makes it optional in the English language, as 'to have to' is mandatory and 'not to have to' leaves you with a choice, thus isn't the direct opposite, but a special case in the English language. However the rules don't use the special case but use 'Avoids having to do something' instead, which in this case makes most sense as [Avoids (having to make a Guts Roll)] as is normal for mandatory Guts checks. As usual the rules are have room for improvement (could just have used the same wording as Guts and use 'forced to make a Guts Roll' or referenced the Guts rules itself) but it still seems to me there isn't any part in the rules or language that suggests it could be optional. It also doesn't make Sense that the Guts Roll itself would be optional introducing a different mechanic than Religious and Courage use (both modify Guts itself). Why would the rules be this unneccessarily complicated and use a different mechanic instead of simply granting Courage for the Order?
It is a 1 hit thing. If you use it, it will expire. So it prevents you from dmg etc (excluding crits) and the effect of the attack, the guts roll. But next time if you suffer a succesful attack, you have to make a guts roll, because there is no active symbiomate.
If you sacrefice the s.m, you can prevent the effect of a succesfull attack, excluding crits. If you take dmg from a crit, you will lose 1/2/3/4/5/6 w/str and that is all.
That's what I'd say too, but IJW seems to think otherwise for reasons I can't quite comprehend. When using a Mate you don't fullfil the requirements for Guts anymore (you're not passing or failing ARM/BTS saves nor are you taking hits from weapons that do not provoke ARM/BTS rolls). Then there is 'Avoids having to' =/= 'Not having to' issue, so I don't get why there would be a Guts check at all or why it would be optional.
So you had someone who wanted to use a Symbiomate to avoid all damage, but then still fail guts to get into a safer spot?
Correct, and even my local Tohaa guys called bullshit on that. Couldn't entirely convince the TO either and won the argument with a dice roll at the end.
From http://infinitythewiki.com/es/SymbioMate So (red color used by me): Using a Symbiomate also prevents the need to roll guts (in case you needed a natural translation)
My Spanish is good enough that I can read that just fine. My interpretation might be, though, that "preventing the need" for a guts roll is tantamount to preventing one altogether, since a guts roll is something you don't voluntarily undertake.
Well, it can be said that it is totally up to you if you want to roll Guts. If you don't, you "fail the roll", after all, unless you have Courage :p
I think this is one of those times when an advisory about intent from whoever wrote the SymbioMate rules would be helpful.
If you read through the skill, the clear intent was that if you use the mate it negates the attack and its effects except crits and their ammo effect.
