How does representation matter? How does the PanO rep change anything? It's sounds like your goal is something that's just on paper and changes nothing about game play or even having fun. I tried the 300pt list of WF and no, you can't. Hospitllar are AVA3, KoJ 2, Hawkins 1, 2 Infirmerer. Taking the most expensive of all of them gets you to 250pts and nearly unplayable.
Yeah, honestly. CB's attention span is the biggest enemy of this setting's growth. My primary point is that "muh lore" is a pathetic excuse for failing to address game issues in this context, given the willingness of the writers to add entire planets, kill off characters and even write the Achilles fiasco. There's no need to leave MO in its weird indecisive state now, they can give it Smoke and real CC kits without impacting Vanilla's balance, and honestly the biggest issue was always just that the entire rest of PanO has been painfully neglected in terms of lore attention. It's been eight parts Space Knights, one part Hexahedron, one part everything else for years. On happier topics, for the O12 hybrid NA2 idea, I'd be more inclined to use ALEPH mediumweights than the O12 heavies; create something with a playstyle more akin to early N3-era ALEPH with lots of NWI in the combat line combined with O12's busier midfield. That, or reach into O12's breadth of robotic units to create a fully remote army for hazardous environments! Dakinis linking with Betas, Garudas and Roadbots exploiting weak points, maybe mix in some Dokkaebi units and Redeyes to round out the roster's weirder parts!
Indeed. Lore can create many issues especially with regards to game mechanics and balance. However, I would posit that without manipulating lore much, removing MO from PanO and making it NA2 allows for other units from other factions to be taken thus filling gaps in support that are needed. Lore wise this can be justified as the headquarters of the order may be on neoterra yet there’s still a strong link with Santiago on Earth and so units from a multitude of different countries that ascribe to the church may be found in its ranks. In this way different support units could easily be added to give things like smoke without changing the lore of MO much. This would give PanO some breathing space design wise and allow for MO to maintain its roots. My only reservation (which seems to be credible given reactions thus far) is that removing MO from PanO as a sectorial would drive some gamers away and I for one have seen enough of that. As to SWF being able to run 300 points of only Knights… as @Space Ranger says, you can get about 260 points with the most expensive. And it’s almost unplayable. Funny looking but it’d be stomped hard by a wide variety of lists.
Guys, guys, you got it all wrong. You have to think money. What was the big thing that came with N5? Achilles and friends joins CA. What makes CB money? New stuff. So what will be the next sectorial? "Achilles and friends new CA sectorial with all the bestest units you have ever seen" of course. There, I solved it for you
Indeed. God willing we’ll all meet again in Infinity N6; the search for more money… Revealing my age there…
While I see where you guys are coming from and I also think that MO may have limited rest of PanO during earlier editions and perhaps including current Svalarheima, I've been playing vPanO after 1.1 update and I'm not feeling restricted anymore in a way I did During N3/N4, actually things are feeling great with lots of options and I'm very happy with current vPanO situation after few games in (haven't played any sectorial yet). MO could imo just be given Eclipse/Smoke grenades, I mean why not? As for Achilles and buddies going to CA, I'm baffled (I also play vAleph at times, though mostly with Maruts), and I see no reason why they could not have been left to Aleph also, and you'd have a "good" and "bad" version of both, there would be no problem at all. Lore should imo never limit a miniature game but enrichen it.
The new sectorial we need is MRRF, back and not trash. Alternatively, Amakusa Shiro recreation lead Christian Rebellion faction with Knights and Samurai. Fucking do it (but seriously, MRRF).
MRRF is out of the question, since the next Ariadna rework has already been announced, and it's USARF for some stupid reason. They could have just left their minis in production since it's a modern range that doesn't need resculpting and made the units good instead. Then we might have gotten MRRF after all, but I guess that would have been too customer friendly for CB...
We've been told for years now that CB looks at ITS numbers. We don't know exactly what that means. For all we know, they look at PanO as being in a good spot when it's just MO lists or things of that nature for all the other factions where a single Sectorial is wildly overrepresented and they think "Oh it's fine". Well yeah, because that's what all of the Sectorial organizational formats are...? Something on paper. Where the change comes about is vanilla. With MO out of the mix for PanO at large, or reduced to token representation in Sectorials and vanilla--design space is freed up within the faction as a whole. At least, it would be for designers who did not prioritize pet projects over everything else. Hey, I didn't say it would be a good list! :D
By that same vein, USARF players are rightly pissed that they did not announce that the range would have these changes. As a reminder though, they're not "resculpting". It's not supposed to be a whole range refresh, from the weasel-worded "announcements" we've gotten.
Someday I think I’d like a new YJ Sectoral. I like what we have but well… I’m greedy. If they were to do one, they could do a Navy force that has troops like Haidao. But I’d like to see a “A Return to Paradiso”. The planet was the first and major fight with the CA. What’s happening now with the ceasefire? The YJ troops are probably all veterans and newbies with little in between right now. But they have probably become a force akin to White Banner. Experts at jungle warfare and maybe guerilla warfare vs. the Combined. I’d like them to have more of a south Asian feel. Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc. I’m not too sure what countries joined PanO and Yu Jing. But I’m sure there’s a few that joined YJ. ASFAIK there’s no sectoral that’s associated with Paradiso too. I guess it could technically be basic Yu Jing but it might have changed over the years.
From what I remember, Paradiso had army groups largely imported from elsewhere in the Sphere- the CA attack, general hostility of the world and lack of colonists who weren't trying to escape would have hindered recruitment efforts! I remember PanO's major detachment there was from Neoterra, but I don't recall Yu Jing's origin. It might just be best to write our own Sectorials at this point. Most of the recent releases have been well-received, but the poor maintenance has been getting people down, and it seems like we lose two things for every new one added. Any new Yu Jing detachment would have to come at the expense of Invincible Army, at the current rate!
Yu Jing's forces were not detailed for Paradiso. It reads like it would be the heavy regiments though, as it talks about the State Empire Army. PanO was the only one having their forces in heavy detail. Ariadna was a close second with the AEC being detailed.
