As far as I am aware of, no. Players feel it should be a discount, but it has never been disclosed if it is, or it is not.
Overall MO are solid, the consensus is they need a rework to be a proper N5 faction, there is no consensus on what parts and especially how.
MO are the last indulgence of CB's fetish for keeping a tight leash on PanO design space, it's really weird! Every other Pano faction has just been hosed with the buff gun, unlocking all the design spaces that were previously taboo, but MO remains stubbornly janky to list build with. LT restrictions are harsh; you want to take Joan but she's actively a bad LT in MO. She wants CoC, but unlike in Pano your only option is 52pts! She wants cheap irregulars to turn regular, but there's only the warcor. She wants a cheap team with utility to bring with her, but that's in Pano, not MO. Yep, Pano has the best Joan, and the best Joan fireteams. It feels silly, but if you want to play the star of military orders, don't play military orders! :D The Tik isn't allowed to have the LT option it has elsewhere, even tho it's a unit from the military order of our lady of montesa. That's highly counterintuitive, and a shame because you won't see the Tik in MO now, ever. It lost AP on its gun and is only 6pts cheaper than the Seraph, which now completely outclasses it. But, you see, MO isn't allowed any kind of flex when it comes to LT options. If it were, Tik would be the best LT choice in MO, unlike in Kestrel and Pano. Crosiers remain overpriced and without an LT option; I can't think of another line troop in the game that doesn't give you one. Knight commander is the same; tempting but galling at that price and a bit of a trap, when you compare it to a Raveneye or Daoying, etc. Teutons are ace still, but aren't a reason to play MO, as it's ava 3 vs 2 in Pano now; hardly worth gimping yourself for one more teuton. Similarly for the new Crux. MO have had some units get massive glowups, like the Seraph, and the Trin(!), but their long-promised shtick of knight teams remains underwhelming and hard to defend vs hacking. MO also suffers from a chronice case of MA2, meaning that even if you do run knight teams, and do avoid getting hacked, and don't mind effectively giving your opponent's entire amry marksmanship against your knights when they do a wound: as soon as one gets into a f2f with an MA3 unit, they're completely outclassed. MO are now firmly at the bottom of the Pano pile, but that doesn't mean they're bad per se, they have lots of really strong options. It's just that list building remains migraine-inducing, and their best lists will lean on Seraph, Trins, armbots and teuton warbands.
I'm really disappointed with the MO changes in N5. I'm going to try to address the changes as objectively as possible, although there is always some subjectivity in this type of analysis, especially considering that I play many factions but MO is the one I like the most. One argument I've seen a lot is that frenzy is finally a penalty for the discount on a unit's cost. The reality is that frenzy was always a penalty. It was a penalty that forced you to form a fireteam in a particularly clumsy sectorial to form linkteams using relatively high-cost units to counteract the frenzy effect. OK, maybe it didn't feel like a real penalty because of the relative ease of countering the frenzy effect, but using a frenzy unit outside of a fireteam in N4 was not a valid option. It was mandatory to use it linked, and there was a limitation there. The new frenzy rule gives marksmanship to any enemy, making the conditions of a BS14 HI equal to a BS11 unit. I honestly prefer to remove frenzy from these units and pay the cost without the discount. As they are now they are not viable. It has been a strong nerf to units that were anything but OP. I have also been told that "it's not a nerf, it's justice", but if the unit is objectively worse than before, it's a nerf and that's it. The rest of the limitations have been excellently explained in previous posts. The problem with lieutenants, the mediocre basic units, etc., etc. The underlying problem is that CB still doesn't know how to play MO and stubbornly continues to apply design limitations that long ago lost validity as part of the game, as Time Bandit explained so well in his post. And once again we are in the situation where MO needs to be reworked because it is still frustrating to use. And I honestly don't have any more patience to devote to Infinity. For the moment I am abandoning Infinity indefinitely. I am lucky to belong to a group of hobbyists who play Kill Team, Dystopian Wars, BLKOUT and several other games. I'll keep an eye on Infinity for any good news, but as things stand now, I'm going to store my miniatures (MO, NCA, HB, O-12 and all the others I have partially complete) until the obvious problems with N5 are taken care of.
Oh, how I wish I could test the lists I’ve built and the minis to go with them. Also, the last of my Infinity player group has dropped out of the game. It was a sad day. I’m hoping to get them all back into it one day but right now they’re all so salty about things. Some great lists above though, they really look like fun. It is interesting to see that MO remains difficult to build with in N5. Hopefully they’re still fun to play as though.
From fresh eyes: I'm starting MO at the moment (as are two of my friends) and we are having a lot of fun. Auto includes seem to be Sereph (arguably one of the best TAGs in the game for its points) and the bike Montesa paramedic and red fury. New frenzy changes (or the FT ones) are rough but the discount is huge and the overall quality of profiles. 26 points for a Hospitalar is eye wateringly cheap for what it is even if you are only gonna get one turn of peak performance. In an ideal world MO Joan would negate frenzy in her FT As with most factions I play I will try and use every unit. Looking forward to it P.S: I'm totally gonna model a female trinny sniper to be Kyle's wife
Back in N2, Inspiring leadership made you regular, but also transmited to the whole army the fury level of Joan and Wallace, so while Joan or Willie didnt hurt anyone, everyone is safe, but if they become impetuous, the whole army do the same. So if Joan and Wallace were part of a FT, your whole army becomes Non Impetuous
I remember that. My opponent putting me in a position where I had to kill with Wallace or lose him. An entire impetuous army is hilarious tho. Miss you massed charge of the 45th *mournful bagpipe screeching*
In general what my N5 games with MO have made me realize is that at face value they seem many times that you do not have the tools to deal with issues, and upon reflection, usually after the game, their huge amount of secondary skills and weapons always have a few tools to deal with the troubling situation at hand. They are a faction that needs a really good understanding and memory of all the various skills and interactions they have.
So your advice to me is "Git gud skrub"?! In all seriousness they seem to have some wonderful toolbox units. And as said I don't mind the frenzy cos it keeps the cost down. I'm looking at Gabriel De Fernsen who for once is a good price for a phenomenal profile.
No, I would never say that, in addition I pointed out that its a mistake I made in my own games, so I am sharing my own experience playing them.
I'm joking mate. I absolutely see your point tho. All factions reward good knowledge of the game system but some reward or more. I'm gonna write RELIGIOUS on my arm to remind me the skill. I'm actually looking forward to managing frenzy. If I don't get wiped out it's going to be hilarious to have an army of mostly impetuous HI like Diggers on bath salts Got some Montesa knights coming (and replacement sallet helmets!) hoping to get a game in over the next few weeks.
The change it received with the edition change will be the only one in years... Even if we dont like it
You don't like it? I find much stronger than in N4, and now it has a reason to be deployed, which imho didn't have back in N4
I don't like it since it stopped being a S6 TAG. When the Seraph was S6, it was the most armored S6 TAG in the game, and one of the few small tags in the game at that point. Then the figure came out and because of the sculptor and the decissions made by the directive, it went up to S7, but it stats stayed the same. No more armor, no true tag weaponry, no more PHY. It went from an special TAG to a meh tag. It was extremely more maneuvrable and durable when it was smaller. It is a Stingray series, it should be the same size that the Tikbalang and the Uhlan. Now is the same size than the Squalo Tags, but the lore still say that is a stingray. The other reason is, and excuse me, super jump is not what this tag should have. We all know that it should be an airborne TAG, the vengeful angel of god, descending from the skies to save the soldiers of the military orders. That would make it really different from the Tikbalang and an interesting option back in N3 and N4 when it had to compete with all the PanO Tags. Personally, i sold mine. I used it 2-3 times in 10 years and 2 editions, and never in tournaments, only testing lists and in a narrative league
Managing impetuous is quite interesting, that extra order is handy, but messes up the Santiagos, Cybermask, so it needs extra planning as it usually is a single turn marker state.
I 100% agree with the Seraph deserving a Combat Jump profile. Combat Jump (Explosion, PH=14), Vulkan Shotgun (+1B), and maybe Panzerfaust/Flammenspeer as a ranged option. Make it a very large Teuton that you can just drop on your problems.
Even without explosión and jumping at 11s, It would a really unique profile in the human sphere and a flex for hyperpower. Give It shotguns and/or MULTI rifle and let it rip
