So, this would be more in line with strategies and tactics, but by having a question (regarding profiles) and being universal, I'm on the fence and decided to placed it here. First, the question: Is there any troop profile with Deactivator and BS(+1B), or that can get it by some interaction? I know there are linkable troops with Deactivator, so they would roll Wip+1SD to use the Deactivator, but I'm checking about the full burst modifier, to try and remove more than one enemy turret (for example) in a single order. Second, a tactic/strategic discussion about turrets and Deactivator. Turrets are Disposable (1) and so each trooper can only deploy one per turn, unless they spend an extra order to reload per extra turret. Now, against this potential turret spam (mainly in Fennec, since all the factions I've checked for now have at most 2 troops able to place turrets, and some like Aleph would be spending like 100pts to get 3 troops capable of deploying turrets), it seems the only "efficient" counter using Deactivator is the specialist remote (14-17pts) previously known as Tachimoto, since they have TacAware and Deactivator (and Triangulated Fire on a Combi Rifle) for removing the turrets without depleting our order pool, riskless in ZoC or in a FtF up to 60cm/24'. Also, regarding turrets, since they can get Cover (cover being something applied to the target of the attacker, not limited to "troops"), a vitroferro deployable cover can up them to ARM8 as an option for being extra annoying, but it requires a more dedicated setup since the deployable cover is placed in Silhouette contact with the troop using it.
Wouldn't work that way. +1 SD is "roll +1 die, but keep only one". If your Burst is 1+1SD, you roll 2 dice, but keep only one. The +1 SD rule says that if you're splitting your fire that has +1 SD, you have to declare which target's dice are receiving the special Die (eg. B4 Spitfire with +1 SD gets split between 2 targets, and you decide that first one gets 2 dice of the Burst, and the second gets 2 dice +1 SD). Therefore, it makes zero sense to take a Burst 1 weapon, give it a +1 SD and split it between two targets: one target will be receiving the one normal die, and the other will be getting a special Die you will roll, but you can't keep anyway... Actually, it makes much more sense to put both die agaisnt single target (you roll 2, but keep 1 - hopefully, one of the results will be better than the target's ARO), and just cross your fingers and hope for the best with the other one. Otherwise, you're diminishing your chances vs target #1, while not gaining anything agaisnt the #2.
No, I was asking about troops with +1B On the other hand there are some deactivators able to link and get the +1SD, that is a different thing. Chief Mech-Engineer Chung-Hee Jeong has BS Attack +1B, and deactivator (and an AP Marksman rifle turret) for 31pts (and Engineer Rerroll -3 and repeater, ,emitter, d-charges....), so he could deactivate 2 turrets at once in ZoC, only one would be 1 dice, and the other 2 dice keeping 1. Besides, the success of a Deactivator roll is the removal of the deployable, there are no further rolls, so the SD is just a success one. I'm going for ZoC, non-FtF rolls here, btw, shooting is better done with non-deactivator troops...
Point of order: BS Attack (MOD) doesn't apply to Deactivators because you don't declare BS Attack with them, you declare Deactivator (short Attack skill, p. 117). Likewise, the Fireteam bonus Special Die won't apply for the same reason, it's a BS Attack (MOD) effect. Deactivator has the BS Weapon (WIP) trait in the weapon chart, but that doesn't appear to actually do anything in this case, which is a rulebook bug. If Deactivator had the BS Attack label, instead of the Attack label, this whole conversation would be different...but it does not.
Guess what... here we go again... (I've been looking only at the spanish version of the rulebook...). Spanish: English: So in the Spanish rulebook it allows for BS attack using the WIP stat, in the english rulebook it just states it's a BS Weapon that uses the WIP stat... From the glossary: BS Weapon (WIP). This weapon can make BS Attacks, but uses the WIP Attribute in place of BS. When using this weapon, all rules and MODs that affect the Trooper’s BS affect their WIP Attribute instead. The BS Attack (Shock) Skill cannot be used with weapons with this Trait. So RAW in english you can only use it as the short order Deactivator and in Spanish as a BS attack? I'm confused... So another one for the differences beteen versions of the rules and all that...
While we are on turrets and deactivator interactions, this one will be real simple. Deactivator specifically calls out that you make a Normal WIP roll and Normal Roll rules are pretty clear that it would be unopposed, but Face to Face rules are also pretty clear that when you are affecting the target it is face to face. And as far as the group that was discussing this goes, it's the only instance we could find at this moment where something that specifies Normal Roll also meets the condition for a Face to Face roll (all other cases are pretty clear about the non-interaction of said scenario). So the question then becomes, if you shoot a deactivator at a turret that is shooting back, is it face to face? Simple question but I have already seen valid cases for either side of that coin.
Both the spanish and english version of the rulebook have "BS Weapon (WIP)" property, so I'd say it's a weapon that can FtF a turret (nevertheless, it's as best as good as a shotgun in the roll, and will have less Burst). I think,as things stands, that the "Deactivator" order is only for the ZoC normal WIP roll, which would be a single dice even in the Korean engineer, and if you use the deactivator as a weapon, you can use the Special Dice from a duo and the Burst bonus of Chief Chung-Hee. I'm not sure, mind you, of this paragraph, but I am quite sure of the previous one. Also, Deactivator has the Attack label in the order, so even as a ZoC effect, I think it would be FtF if the turret can draw LoS, the same way a hacker trying to Carbonite an Orc in LoS will FtF their hack with the Avatar's HMG...
"at most" => no more than X, without a minimum. Nevertheless, Tohaa have other stuff, and a "pheromone turret" that hits you for stun (WIP) & Para (PH-6) would have been quite interesting. Nevertheless... Chaksa auxiliars at 10pts are quite potent, second only to Ikadrons (btw CA has only the turrets for Dr Worm) and might have been a problem with turrets too.
While that is logical, the skill itself is still explicit about it being a Normal WIP roll. And to somewhat double-down on that note, the final line says if you pass the WIP roll it will remove the deployable with no single mention of any Face to Face interactions. Additionally you have to be careful if it's only for ZoC for Normal Rolls because against a QAZ creature the deactivator in ZoC would be opposed. Additionally there are 0 indicators that ZoC or LoF attacks actually use any differentiation of rules. So a ZoC deactivator would still benefit from +6 and any SD/B bonuses. So long as you meet the conditions for the Deactivator short skill and then apply BS Attack mods as normal due to the BS Attack (WIP) trait then from my understanding ZoC and LoF would be the same functionally. And to that note, normally a BS Attack would be Face to Face. So this is where the actual question comes from. Does the Deactivator rules spelling out Normal Rolls themselves take priority over the normal rules of BS Attack? Since we would be using the rules text to get the requirements and effects of the Deactivator short skill. I'm only more on the side of it being Normal Rolls if only to keep the rules interactions a lot cleaner of "if it's in the rules for that skill, you use those rules." We can then have a valid discussion on if the rules are good or not from there and request changes if they arn't good. I'm honestly not particularly attached either way from a gameplay perspective though. But hopefully that shows how this is not really as open and shut as it seems on it's face.
Ok, let's disambiguate some things for anyone trying to keep up at home: Can you use a Deactivator as a BS Attack (WIP) weapon? YES, you can do this. It has a weapon entry with BS Attack (WIP), which explicitly lets you use the Deactivator by declaring BS Attack. Simple. But... What happens when you use a Deactivator as a BS Attack (WIP) weapon, declaring BS Attack with it? Nothing. The Ammo and Saving Rolls values in the weapon entry are null (--) so it does no damage. The Traits field says it's a BS Attack (WIP) weapon and [***] but that's it. On page 50 the rules explain that this means you have to look up the special rules for the weapon or equipment. When you look up Deactivator, the only thing it tells you is that if you declare the Deactivator Short Skill and meet its Requirements, you can make a Normal Roll to remove enemy deployables. No effect is given for using it as a BS Attack (WIP) weapon. This is a problem. CB could remove BS Attack (WIP) from the weapon chart and it would be just fine. Or they could treat it like Forward Observer, which is in a similar position rules-wise and also works just fine. You could argue that it'll let you FtF a turret, but if you win the FtF nothing happens, you can't affect the target. You're probably better off shooting the bloody thing. (As far as I can tell, this is the same in Spanish? All the Effects of a Deactivator are contained in the Deactivator Skill, which you have to declare to get those Effects to occur. So using it as a BS Weapon with the BS Attack Skill does nothing.) Using a Deactivator with the Deactivator Short Skill: You make a Normal roll, it's never FtF. This is very clear and explicit in the Deactivator rule. If you succeed the target goes poof. The way this works means that multiple things have a "wrong way" to attempt to Deactivator to them: Do not attempt to Deactivate an enemy turret that can see you, it'll get a Normal roll to blast you. Do not attempt it within 8" of a QAZ Creature, Crazy Koala, or MadTrap even if you are out of LoF, they just attack you. Do not attempt it within 8" of a repeater if you are Hackable. Do not attempt it within LoF and blast radius of a revealed Mine or Drop Bear for obvious reasons. Using a Deactivator with the Activate Disco Ball Short Skill: Why is this not included under the Deactivator entry on p. 117? WHYYYYYYYYY CB
