Shatterpoint/Crisis Protocol did a good job with the concept of "swarms" I feel. Having "basic" troops as multiples on a single base makes you feel the horde/swarm element while still letting you avoid having tons of bases on the field. Grunts, Kazaks, Metros, and Volunteers all could have benefitted from being a multi-model base.
Ariadna doesn't have: HD Combat Jump mimitism -6 BS -3 MSV2 Albedo White Noise fliers jet propulsion evo hacker MA3+ But everyone plays with 15 models and in some instances with more orders than ariadna. It's common sense, or ariadna gets better profiles or asimetrical model counts are introduced. Whats the point of playing a specific faction if all of them play in the same way but some of them are just better at it with better skills and gear?
It's funny about BS-3, because the Caledonian Mormaer (STILL IN PRODUCTION, BUT UNPLAYABLE) would have been the poster child for the implied concept. It's the trooper with the most lethal ammunition in the human sphere in frankly irresponsible quantities and a desire to recklessly use as much of it as violently and ostentatiously as possible. Still in production. One of the coolest looking troopers in the game. Just hanging out. Without any rules.
That's why the 15 trooper limit is both jaringly artificial and a bad idea. Expand it to two full combat groups, 20 troopers, balance the game around the idea that people might want to field different unit counts. Seriously, we were playing this for years, even before the number of buffs to HIs, TAGs, and other elite units, and while Ariadna was always strong, it didn't dominate the field. Now, with high ARM/BTS units being more durable, more TacAwareness around, and Smoke being easier to deal with there should be no problems with making this work.
I disagree. The 15-man cap is a good thing. I'm sure that there's an organic solution to the issues that body spam represented, but the game plays better with its control on the size of forces involved. At this point, I don't think that removing that cap would even fix any of the problems facing Ariadna today. At least not outside of USARF, which is a dead faction that is only relevant in discussion at this point in its leaving of the game. The way trooper costs and roles are being optimized these days, the push overall in the game design is towards wider army builds with more versatile kits. The problem Ariadna pays for is that those kits are now getting left behind. Ariadna is meant to be a backwater, plucky bunch that is comparatively low on tech, but high on heart. But it's been 25 years in-lore since they've rejoined human sphere society, and surprisingly near as much since they've been a part of the game (can you believe that Infinity is 20 years old this year? Holy crap). How do you move the lore forward for everyone else and still keep Ariadna relevant, yet still in the past? What unique solutions is Ariadna meant to bring to the table, again both in gameplay and in lore, that allows them to solve problems in ways that other factions can not or are not meant to? I don't think Ariadna needs much from that above list of features restricted from them. Although, as I mentioned in a previous post, it's silly that the faction known for having massive reserves of the most metallurgically advanced ammunition in the game and the guns to fire them not having access to BS-3 is a bit silly. And it's probably time that the CC training went up a bit to catch up with the modern state of the game. But what Ariadna does need is that heart to make up for the absense of those tools. Lastly, the other gaping issue facing Ariadna is its cultural cannibalism. I think that one of the greatest strengths in Infinity compared to other tabletop games (and a lot of media properties in general) is its multiculturalism. While some of it is ignorantly nonsensical or flanderized (especially in the good-old days, sometimes to the point of accidental offensiveness), the world created being one that represents a broad swathe of cultures in unique and mostly positive ways in a way that makes its setting feel more lived-in, rather than pandering, is really cool. Conversely, having Ariadna, an extremely culturally diverse and distinct faction, being subsumed largely by a single arm of its cultural makeup (we'll keep this independant of any real-life goings on for the sake of the sanity of this discussion) is an enormous drain on this varied and colourful sense of identity.
100% this. Ariadna losing isn’t distinctive variety of cultures hurts it. It’s also boring. Their own lore even allows for a chance to shake Ariadna up and bring them more fully into the advanced world. The lore talks about it being only a matter of time until Merovingia takes over the government of Ariadna due to having all the trade and foreign contacts. CB should really run with that. They could easily use that to overhaul Ariadna and modernize the faction.
I just have to disagree, don't you see the amount of gameplay diversity that the game has lost? What is the difference between factions if all of them use the same amount of models? What's the point of playing ariadna if it becomes a copy of other factions but with worse gear? Whats the value of giving high tech gear to ariadna to just play in the same boring way like any other faction? Why a list with super elite troups should be able to reach 15 models and 15+ orders, while ariadna has to srtugle with second tier profiles and the same model cap? Do you truly believe that allowing 16 for a faction would be detrimental for the game? Do you think 8+8 models in two groups is going to brake the game instead of regaining a different play style? If you think restricting the game is the way to go, why not restrict some factions to not surpass 12 models per list? The game NEEDS faction identity and gameplay diversity because since 15 cap was implemented infinity has become a dramatically boring game. Maybe USARF is not relevant to you but it definitely is for me.
So while I largely agree with the problems with Ariadna as a faction holding true, especially the 15 model cap and all the old stuff needing a good sit down rework as it's not up to modern standards. I will say I think that characterizing it as an "assassination" seems a little strong. One ray of positivity I'm seeing is that out our Skirmishers Work again, I can ambush links and get Surprise Shot off, and they have less dice for actual damage in the reactive. Plus I don't have to fear everything with a shotgun templating me to death for at best a trade. I feel that counts for something anyway.
The biggest issue is that most of Ariadna (TAK, USARF, and sadly MRRF/CHA) haven't received any meaningful consideration since N3, well before the 15 model cap. They're frankly not designed for the current game, they were designed for a time where Ariadna had the most orders to work with, the most models to work with, and usually the most wounds on the table. They used those resources to get around their technological limitations, and it was an interesting puzzle to solve. Ariadna is not that army any more, and their rules haven't been updated to work within the new limitations... Now they have the same number of models as anyone else. Often less total wounds on the table, and the lowest amount of order generation (due to the proliferation of Tac Aware, NCO, and LT +1 Order in other forces). I think there are some creative ways to keep Ariadna's flavor, and work within the 15 model cap, if CB is willing to take a minute and get creative.
The proposed solutions are in the two other threads? Make USAriadna Great Again Updating Ariadna for N5 Ill watch the discussions there with much interest.
I don't understand what the point is in suggesting advice for a faction, when even in the last official army update Ariadna was totally ignored (apart from number 2 for Wallace...wow).
Well they have said USARF is getting a refresh. They just didn't seem to have the bandwidth to deal with them (which sucks, but there does seem to be 12% of a plan...)
No new ISS units have been added to vanilla Yu Jing, so even if Usariadna were to be released soon I highly doubt there would be any big changes in generic Ariadna.
What sectorial are being played or Playable in any of the new n5 releases? Aleph and Ariadna seem as bad as Tohaa to me.
Ariadna is really in a bad state. Big tournament in Germany the next weekend. 84 Players from different countries. Only one Ariadna (TAK) player. I'm really interested how they will perform.
Well, even in the N4 apogee, I noticed in big tournaments Ariadna players (as a whole, not vainilla) dropped or have an over presence really dependent on what missions the tournament had: highly classified, exclusion zones, etc. I think, but without knowing with missions will be played in this tournament in Deutschland, could be a little the case too. However, we still see dropping numbers in those factions which had a power cut on some profiles in N5, mainly Ariadna and SSA. What amazes me are the haqqislam numbers, I don't use to see as many as in this tournament. Even if I know outside Spain Hassasin is doing really well, the high numbers on haqqislam I assume is a german meta thing most likely. Coming back to the main topic, I was "on mute" for a while since I wanted to play with Ariadna a little (in this case vainilla) before to post again (I tried to talk not only from a theoretical point of view). I made several lists I thought I will be comfortable with and played with then. The point was: list A, many camos as possible, then I move to a list without camos. Finally I keep the "almost full camo one" and the one with only a few camos, but still some in it. Conclusions while building the lists: 1. The almost full camo list isn't as far as a few ones I could play in Haqqislam Vainilla or Hassasin. List concepts that pretty much don't deploy anything inside the deployment zone, but most likely one wound profiles. 2. The other list, with only a few camos, it is the same as I could play in other factions, Ramah for example, old Acontecimento, etc. in which I have to get out of the deployment zone with pretty much the whole army and with most models with light armor and one wound. My point here is I can play Ariadna, more or less same as I play other factions, and I didn't feel a drop in the power of that list, they were the same or even I noticed more powerful because I had more options to choose. Conclusions playing: Spoiler: Lista ────────────────────────────────────────────────── lista.grupo 1 10 1 BRIGADIER BRUANT (Infiltration) AP Spitfire, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33) POLARIS TEAM ALPHA undefined / undefined. (0 | 35) MASHA Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9) POLARIS BEARPODE ALPHA Chain Rifle(+1B, PS=6), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Trench-Hammer(PS=3), AP CC Weapon(PS=3). (0 | 26) KIBERVOLK Chest Mine, Crazykoala / Trench-Hammer, Shock CC Weapon(PS=4). (0 | 12) DOZER KVP Light Shotgun, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) ELEKTRONIK PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 2) TRAKTOR MUL (Deactivator) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5) MOBLOT FTO (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35) FRONTOVIK (Paramedic) T2 Rifle ( | MediKit) / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23) FRONTOVIK Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 19) SCOUT (Minelayer) Ohotnik, D-Charges, E/M Mine / Silenced Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28) lista.grupo 2 5 1 COLONEL VORONIN (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token], Strategos L1) Light Shotgun(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(PS=5). (0 | 22) RATNIK Heavy Rocket Launcher(+1B), Heavy Shotgun / Heavy Pistol, Trench-Hammer, CC Weapon(PS=6). (1.5 | 39) TRAKTOR MUL (Deactivator) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5) KAZAK DOKTOR Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) ELEKTRONIK PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 2) STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mine, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 17) 6 filtros.CAP | 300 filtros.puntos SYS.abrirArmy I played several times this list... 1. It has good orders pool. 16 regulars orders + 2 tactical awareness. 2. I has an extra token, really useful in N5. 3. I has access to a good Lt (stragegos) and capable to defend himself unless somebody shoots him from distance... 4. It has good shooters (not the best, yes, other factions have better): Moblot HMG mimetism+BS13, Ratnik is a good ARO option thanks the panzerfaust, the HRL+1Burst is good enough in active... Frontovik HRL as ARO or secundary active piece... Bruant, spitfire AP with mimetism... 5. it has several support units: doctor, paramedic, engineer... bagages to reload disposable items. 6. It has some camo: 5, some with spearhead function (Bruant), button pushers (strelok, bruant), defensive/ofensive behind lines scout... 7. It has expendable attack/defensive pieces: Bear and Kibervolk ... Yes, I could have less BS, less visors in general if I compare, for example, while playing Winterforce, but I have better midfield (many options: shock mines, AP mines, EM mines, several minelayers, decoys... it can be anything)... they are many weapons with t2 or ap or continuous damage... I have access to smoke... As I said at the beginning I can make list really alike to what I play in other factions... I really had the feeling that Ariadna could be truly in a bad spot, but after I played with it and tried hard to build list, I don't think anymore Ariadna is in so bad shape. I have the feeling most issues players are noticing with Ariadna are similar to the ones I know many hassasin players are now experiencing. Despite the spikes in hassasin players presence in some tournaments, and even the good results, many veterans hassasin players have the feeling that N5 hassasin isn't as goof as it was in N4, but this is mostly, for sure, due impersonator's and asawira's nerf and nothing else. I could add for the rising number of players that hassasin has many "new models" and a box on sale that allows you to start with it almost instantly. So, I can understand the feeling of being depowered, maybe this, join to missions not too favorable for Ariadna are causing the lack of Ariadna players in many tournaments, but I'm pretty sure we will start to see numbers going up sooner than late. best regards!
If it's an "assassination", CB are the world's least competent assassins. They've left the faction in the game, with multiple sectorial armies - some of which you can still buy figures for. That's so incompetent, you may as well plaster a YUUUUUUGE bandage to Ariadna's ear and call it a "epic fail".
