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So starting ISS need help with purchase decision

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Stur, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. Stur

    Stur Member

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    Hey I have decided to focus on ISS for the next year. Previously a nomad and haqq player so its time to try out the hammer!

    What I am mostly split on is wether to get 2x kanren or only 1, the same for the dakinis but with the addition are they even good on the table? Because on paper they seem awesome. Also would you advice to get a 2nd Su jian or will I rarely if ever use it. This is of course with 300 pts ITS in mind!
    Anyways thanks in advance :D!
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    What do you have?

    The Dakinis are good, but little more than roadbumps or fast specialists. The Garuda is a little better (much better, but degraded because of being hackable and not having stealth), but won't be having haking support. The Sophotect, however, is damn good: it costs about as much as both an engineer and doctor, it's the same into one, and it's faster (but you lose 1 order).

    The Su Jian, if you are careful and have some markers, you can get away by using a single box (it contains one "cat" model and one "humie" model), but you will need 4 Kuangshi and 1 Celestial guard... sadly, they are autoinclude in most lists because the Controller has the only Smoke in the sectorial, and the cheap orders allow the inclusion of heavy, expensive stuff.

    You will need 1 Ninja (I think ISS keeps his, like Vanilla) and, very likely, the Dire Foes with Leyla Sharif and Xi Zuang, because the latter is the only source of adhesive goats atm. As for Kanren, you can get two if you want, since you will use both models even if you field a single one (you will place 1 holoecho marker instead of 2 XD).

    The gen2 remotes (Lu Duan and his partner-in-box) are nearly a must, but you could use the same other remotes you used in Haqquislam for the other models.

    Finally, you will have to decide what kind of Haris you might want to play, the usual is a Hsien with 2 Zhanying.
     
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  3. Stur

    Stur Member

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    @xagroth wow thanks for the detailed write up!

    Well what I have is
    Pheasant sniper
    ISS starter
    Red Veil
    Dire foe
    Sun tze
    Su jian
    ABH
    CSU
    Sforza

    I do plan on getting a box of kuang shi, Bao, garuda and a guija pilot (painted as an AI to proxy sophotect). I will not be getting the remotes since I have all nomad, haqq and some C.army so getting quite bored with buying and assembling essentially the same unit over and over hehe. Im not too keen on wu ming despite their badassery since pain train has never been much my thing, tried it in corregidor did not work out haha, besides that it just looks like ISS has other beefier morw badass units id use instead of them. And i am waiting on the alleged CG swc box since carlos has said after the summer sometime hehe. In the mean time il use zhansi if I need the extra CG :)!
     
    #3 Stur, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, you have quite the base already to get a feeling! I would advice against the Bao, unless you plan to face tons of Combined Army (vanilla or Shasvastii) or Haqquislam, because of the Impersonators. They are, essentially, too expensive and fragile with a lot of in-universe bad publicity (they are "the dogs of the ISS" so to speak, and more in a brutish meaning than a servitude one).

    If you find someone playing Aleph's Greeks, you can speak with him about breaking Aleph's support pack, with you getting the Sophotect (he can use the rest of the box, but for one antenna).

    As for the Wu Mings, while they are not really a pain train, they are a GREAT weapons platform, and they have other linking options aside from the Core; they are more like Riot Grrrrrls!!! than Mobile Brigadas, so proxy and check if they agree with you.

    In the end, I'd say that right now the only thing you need to mark ISS as "completed for a time" are the Kuangshi box, since you already have 3 Celestial guards.
     
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  5. Stur

    Stur Member

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    Alright thanks for the tips i will certainly try the wu ming out, since well I love the models but saw no reason in getting them due to the brigada diasco haha.

    For the bao, my idea was mostly a Haris option with the pheasant, still too iffy to run them unless agaonst the aformentioned factions?
    As to the fluff, thats one of the appeal for my as horrible human beings they may be :D

    Again really appreciate the advice man, super helpfull!
     
  6. BenMoss

    BenMoss Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'd buy two packs of Kuang Shi as they are the best unit in the faction. Put one set in a fireteam to start the game while the others take defensive positions from which they won't throw themselves into an MSV sniper/TR bot. Once those initial ARO pieces are clear let them loose to dominate the midfield. Never lose sight of the fact that they aren't much more expensive than a warcor but get free orders each turn, are regular, have DTWs (and pistols if opponent is in the open anyway and dodging as the odds are better), are dogged, can explode and can be used for sneaky repeater coverage (to go with that ninja killer hacker hiding out back) or simple classifieds (turn on the track then use the sophotect to pick them up).

    I think Xagroth undersells Dakini as well. At 13pts for a combi they are the same price as a Celestial Guard combi but come with mimetism and better movement (plus you're taking the ninja KHD anyway so there's no real tax). If you took a Celestial Guard hacker they get better as you can give them marksmanship. In that kind of situation the HMG as a 6-4 mimetic attack unit for 21/1 is really good value. Paramedic is also a fast mimetic specialist worth considering. There are certainly lists where you could run two. This is probably more true if you aren't running the standard remotes (specifically the Rui Shi which is the best one available at 20/1 for an MSV2 spitfire).

    Garuda spitfire or boarding shotgun are the prefered profiles (the spitfire is the better of the two due to issues with needing to close to within ZoC for the best use of the shotgun and that has risks as a REM).

    I also find the Hsien to be the other really strong unit in ISS. MSV2 HMG at BS14 taking advantage of smoke (linked fire from the Celestial Guard to maximise the chances of dropping it where you need when you need) is very strong. Doubly so when it comes on an ARM4 HI chassis. You can run similar tricks with the Rui Shi but as noted above I'd probably run Dakinis (and just use the mimetism rather than smoke/MSV2) if you're avoiding the standard REMS.
     
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  7. Stur

    Stur Member

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    @BenMoss thanks for your input, greatly appreciated! About them rems, im not avoiding them as such just avoiding buying them for the time being. Will proxy them with my nomad rems since rui shi/lu duan is simply just too good!
     
  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Nah, they are great, but having 2 sucks. 4 is the minimum I play with when I do xD. The problem here is that the HMG one you don't really want (a TR costs about as much, and has more reactive range), and the sniper gets underutilized (you lack White Noise for shock-hunting enemy snipers)... But the humble Combi and the Paramedic are really the stars: move them to the midfield, capture the objectives (if you need to), and drop them on Supressive Fire. -9 to the enemy while you fire at 11 or 8 with Burst 3, for just 26/30 points.

    What I mean with roadblocks is that they are better at that role, while other ISS troops take the offensive (Hsien HMG, Su Jian, etc...).
    As for the Garuda, sure, you need to be in ZoC to get that +6 to shot, but you can still shot twice and place a template outside of ZoC, it's harder but it can decimate an enemy fireteam in a single barrage. And if you hit the enemy, even if they win the FtF roll, you place the template anyway (sources: templates, and Warcor who is also a tester), so they have to dodge or endanger their whole team.
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I've used the Dakini HMG to great effect. It's significantly better than a TR HMG in active turn (and even that one is murder when given Marksmanship). Why not both? is my question to someone pitting Dakini and Husong against each other.
     
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  10. BenMoss

    BenMoss Well-Known Member

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    Against most targets the Dakini HMG is effective BS 20 on the active turn (BS11 +mimetic +marksman +range). I get that negative mods on an opponent aren't the same as positive on the attacker but as a rough guide its still useful.

    Crane agents in 5 man links are 19, Hsien are 17 (but 23 with smoke), Rui Shi are 17 (but 23 with smoke) and Hac Tao is 23. That means it is second only to a 70pt HI unit in the active turn unless you have orders to burn on dropping smoke. That's pretty strong :)
     
  11. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I can attest to the Dakini HMG being an absolute hellbeast on the active turn.

    Signed

    Someone who played against them regularly.
     
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  12. Stur

    Stur Member

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    Well sounds like I am trying the dakini my next game :D! Thanks for all the help and advice
     
  13. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    I bought two Kanrens, not that I’ll ever need two but simply because I enjoy disguising mine as a Killer Hacker, who’s pretending to be a FO or a FO pretending to be a Killer Hacked. Upon revealing the true profile, I place either the male or the female version, who ever is the true model.
     
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  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    On that note, let me be a deterrent. I just bought another 4 Kanren. Already had two of the male version, so I bought a third male and three females, so not I won't have to use those acrylic tokens anymore!

    I'll have them painted in about a year at this pace :(
     
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  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I have 10 Kanren.

    It's a problem.
     
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