I'm concerned by the rate with which it is getting better. We've been seeing several complains by Warcrow players about siocast issues, about 3-4 years since the vostok came out. Siocast has clear applications, when it comes to tactical rocks, boxes, stumps and so on. It will probably work well for the upcoming vehicles too, but is proving to be a continuous frustration for small details on miniatures and its mechanical properties continue being unreliable.
I had an asnwer on saturday and the forum went down, so... I'll summarize: Economy: People is selling printed Kill Team sets (10+ models and bases) for 20€ (probably self-use costs). Goblintrader sells individual miniatures with a plain base in a standard blister for 5.95€ (RNEstudio, for example) even after paying the merchant's license (so it's a completely legal, all costs considered, product), or 5 "democracy helljumpers" (Helldivers models) from Papsikels for 12.95€. A Red Hulk from Trident Studio (S7 TAG size equivalent) is about 14.95 (and consider they don't seem to hollow big models). Resistance: I have droppen several models more than once, at most small pieces (a "claw" or similar) broke, no model has ever exploded on me after falling (well, ONE did, the old Combi Ekdromoi from N3, the glue failed horribly on a fall from the table to the ground, all pieces were recovered. Another just lost the legs, the old Sphynx, I pinned the legs to the hips of the model with 2 clips and gave me no problems afterwards... both were Corvus' original metal models, in case anyone is wondering). Resins are a photosensible liquid, and can cause alergic-like reactions even after being cured (not so if painted). Fumes can be toxic, and usually are, specially some "plastic" compounds ("ABS like" for example are much more resistant than standard resin/plastic, but also much more toxic, and the plastic version requires higher temperatures to be used). Ideally you need latex gloves, safety glasses and dust masks protection (brown color protection level, really needed if you use a hot air gun -I prefer the really hot water method instead- or sand the pieces), but being careful and avoiding direct contact with the skin you can get by with just glasses and a basic disposable mask when removing the support pieces after the alcohol cleaning. That's the problem there, the different colors come from a different mixture, usually considered a consequence of recycling failed casts, and those supposedly recycled material is the one being as fragile as glass or degrading into powder with ease. As for the mold lines and casting failures reaching the consumer, I have no idea if it does come from bad materials, or just failure in QA. Give me a vehicle in a material that has to be treated like blown glass, and I won't even consider buying it. Tamiya has good plastic kits in a pinch.
Nah I just don't think vehicles will be problematic. The slideshow had a silhouette that is the PanO water scooter we know from art before, which imho indicates that CB will go largely with the existing design concepts for infinity vehicles. And the vast majority of them, while sleek, lacks small gribblies, antennas and what not, which will be in peril of disintegrating when dropped. They will be solid chunks of plastic. Of course, I may be horribly wrong and CB can pull off an Exrah tentacle S8 monstrosity, which will self destruct as soon as you even think about it, but I do believe they will be sturdy pieces.
Considered does not mean it is though, we know CB has said they develop their own mixture so it might be that. Theoretically though Siocast manufacturer claims Siocast is 100% recyclable so recycling should not produce quality issues.
Siocast is a bit more difficult to clean up, because using a file will cause the material to 'pill' up, or get fuzzy, which is even more difficult to clean up. I have had some success with a high grit sanding sponge, but usually I go with a new blade on a hobby knife for mold line clean up. Where this can be more of a problem is when a detail gets filled in with material due to a rip or other defect in the mold. This happens from time to time with the metal minis too, but because metal is more durable, this can usually be fixed up with some quick filling and hobby knife application. With Siocast it is just more labor intensive. Another issue I have seen is that it doesn't hold some shapes as well during the molding/demolding process, so sometimes circular details get distorted into more oval shapes. Siocast can also stress fracture. Generally this is not a huge problem, but it is something to be aware of because when cutting it, it may instead break, and not give the clean cut you were hoping for. A friend of mine also magnetized the base of his bearpode, and in the process of picking up the model by its torso both legs broke, leaving the feet anchored to the base, so remember to always pick up from the base. Details are not as crisp. I haven't painted any of my siocast minis yet, so I am not sure how noticeable this is once they are painted.
That's been my experience with SioCast almost exactly, except it was a Squalo Mk II instead of a Bearpode who broke at the ankles and I was painting him when it happened. Actually, that Squalo has broken in several places, and every time it's been a complete surprise.
I personally handled around 20 siocast miniatures (most were objectives but not all). In my experience it has been terrible. I've tried cutting it with hobby knife from 1 side, cutting around a little bit at a time, tried pliers, and still it was around 50/50 gamble if its gonna cut clean or break potentialy tearing a buch of material from the model. Details are worse than metal, and if you get mold spill forger about cleaning it properly especially when its on a visable, detailed spot. The thing is also sometimes bendy and sometimes brittle like resin. The only good part is the way it takes glue, now that is excellent. Unicool plastic/resin thing is way better. I have the ITS Marut and new Yaoxie remotes and the material fixes most if not all problem that Siocast has. Its only a little bit worse at taking glue but still amazing compared to metal. And of course the best solution would be to just throw away all of that plastic and continue to use metal. The prices are stable right now and if they have to use siocast machines they have entire new game to flood with that crap. Or at least start selling metal versions of siocast products as cast on order for a month after releasing siocast version and you'll see how many people will pay extra for better material.
I never had these issues (aside from the cleaning, my solution is a fresh blade and running the surface area both directions), and I am start wondering why? And no I am not saying they do not happen or that I disbelieve you, I just never fell into them, worse case I had was Vostoks K12 muzzle that broke and had to glue it back and a Nomads remote legs snapping on try fit that I glued back.
Totally agreed. A Tag? A Vehicle? No problem. But anything smaller and/or requiring more details? Just no. I don’t know about Warcrow, but when I look at the Roadbot (the one standing up), there are several miscasts on top of its hip, behind the knees etc. When it needs to be mega detailed it’s very messy and it’s really unpaintable. Ok the spots are quite hidden. Ok, in the grand scheme things it’s not a huge problem, and I’m no tournament painter. But it take off a lot of enjoyment from painting (having to figure out how to paint to properly offset the miscast is no fun) and I’m not willing to buy infantry units if it’s to have these problems.
I'm like psychoticstorm - I've yet to have a bad siocast model. Mouldlines came off with a sharp blade and some sanding. The muzzle on the Vostok mk12 stayed intact (I removed the magazine and replaced it with a belt feed instead). The "head" piece was separate and the mould lines were not troublesome to remove. The Aleph Marut TAG cleaned up likewise easily. I left off the armoured skirt bits and reshaped the sword (it had too many extraneous bits that *WILL* snag on everything and risk breaking it.). The meteor zond was easily assembled and cleaned up. Even the Zond remotes cleaned up quickly and easily. I don't waste my breath whining online about bad casts, though. I just contact CB and they replace it. Otherwise, if it's something that I have zero interest in, I vote with my wallet and don't buy it.
How can siocast be improved if we don't "whine" give feedback about the material. Imagine everybody just being silent and use CB's miscast service. Siocast is way worse material than metal, It needs as much feedback as it can get. The worse part is the cleaning, if you get a seamline over fine detail It's over, you won't bring it to the original level. It takes so much more time to clean it properly. I do dispay level painting and clean up process is very important part of the job. If I pay premium price I expect premium material, not be bothered with miscast service.
There’s that, and then there’s the question: what is an acceptable level of miscast? A tiny portion well hidden (but visible up close) is a bit messy? When this happens with metal minis, those small miscasts are easily repairable. With Siocast they aren’t. So what do we from there? What is the level of acceptability of a refund/reshipping? Is it then the intent to spam CB with refund request for any small miscast that a human can’t repair? I don’t think that’s very productive either.
I've had more miscast issues with their metal models than any of the siocast ... (however, I do only have half-dozen or so siocast and a couple of hundred metals.) The siocast I've received have not had the egregious issues that first seemed to plague them - and any mould lines mine had cleaned up with a sharp blade and a sanding stick. I've not had any parts snap off where they shouldn't - the same cannot be said for some of the swords wielded by METAL infinity models.
I will give that a test sometime! Though I would be very careful trying that with a Unicool mini, that stuff burns like a candle from what I have tested. The leg snapping is the kind of stress fracturing that I was referring too. Are you doing a lot of conversion work where you are cutting off parts of the mini for a weapon swap or repose? That is where I tend to run into the biggest problems due to the material fracturing, and not give a clean cut. The problem can be mitigated by doing shallow cuts all around the piece you are trying to separate before going deeper with the cut, but definitely need to be more careful than with metal, and sometimes even the shallow cuts will cause a fracture.
Oh, there's a knack to be learned for the use of a flame on this stuff - just like flame polishing acrylic, really. The knack is in learning how close is "too close" - you only want to heat it enough to melt it off, not set fire to it.
