ok qeustion is the model placing a mine , fast panda etc. have to still be alive at the conclusion of the order for the deployable to be placed Order Expenditure Sequence Each time the Active Player decides to use an Order (of whatever type) to activate a Trooper, follow these steps: Update 1.1.1, Dec 2021 1. Activation. The Active Player declares which Trooper will activate. 1.1. Order Expenditure. The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order he uses to activate the Trooper. 1.2. Declaration of the First Skill. The Active Player declares the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order, he wants to use. If movements are declared, the player measures where the Trooper can move and places the Trooper at the final point of its movement. 2. Reactive Player’s AROs 2.1. ARO Check. The Reactive Player checks if they are allowed to declare AROs with their Troopers. Players can check from the Active Trooper if any Trooper or Game Element is inside the Zone of Control (ZoC) of the Active Trooper. 2.2. ARO Declaration. The Reactive Player declares the AROs of those Troopers that are allowed to declare one. Troopers are not forced to declare AROs, but if a Trooper can declare an ARO and fails to do so, the chance to declare an ARO is lost. 3. Declaration of the Second Skill. The Active Player declares the second Short Skill of the Order, if applicable. If movements are declared, the player measures where the Trooper can move, chooses the route, and places the Trooper at the final point of its movement. 4. Reactive Player’s AROs 4.1. ARO Check. The Reactive Player checks if they are allowed to declare AROs with those Troopers that couldn’t declare an ARO in the previous ARO Check step. Players can check from the Active Trooper if any Trooper or Game Element is inside the Zone of Control (ZoC) of the Active Trooper. 4.2 ARO Declaration. The Reactive Player declares the AROs of those Troopers that are allowed to declare one. 5. Resolution: Check that the declared Skills and pieces of Equipment meet their respective Requirements, measure all distances, determine MODs, and both players make Rolls. If any Skill or piece of Equipment doesn’t meet its Requirements, the Trooper performs an Idle. 5.1 Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Skills and Equipment including Saving Rolls and Dodge movement. 5.2 Conclusion: Guts Rolls are made. The effects of Guts Rolls and Alert are applied. End of the Order.
It is all at once. So it doesn't matter if you are turned into a red mist (which is technically during the resolution/effects stage), you still boop the button/put down the mine/heal the unconscious model. Your models get to be big heroes sacrificing themselves to compete the mission.
I get the heroic death , but deploying a piece of equipment is the only one that says "The Token is placed at the Conclusion of the Order" step 5.2 doctor skill bopping the button is resolved in step effect 5.1 if the mine was still deployed , to me a dead or unconscious model would have to make a guts check and even have to seek better cover all of which are part of the conclusion step 5.2 i feel like a dead model could not place a deploy able in step 5.2 since he was dead unconscious in step 5.1 effect
Is there any rule wording to support that it goes down even if the model is unconscious? I have been unable to find it! but the rule is pretty clear on the timing? And if it is to prevent mine from being hit ,, it could be easily placed in step 5.1. Of effects. And the rule say u place the mine marker down when you declare the skill, even refers to a player being unable to target the mine crazy kola mad trap etc.….but is clearerly deployed in the conclusion step 5.2 ( possible the trooper finishes by arming said device)?
The short skill is not contested and does not require a roll, therefore whatever happens do the model the short skill will happen regardless of its eventual fate.
Nope... https://infinitythewiki.com/Place_Deployable The Token is placed at the Conclusion of the Order in which the Trooper declared this Skill. (See FAQs & Errata. Repositioning is allowed if a Trooper has moved into the chosen position.) The enemy may only react against the Trooper that declares the Skill, not against the Weapon or piece of Equipment that is placed on the table during that Order or ARO.
Ok . I’m wrong , I geuss but the wording and steps don’t support it what you’re telling me. I was hoping for rule clarifying this.
If we are to argue semantics. Place Deployable skill takes place in 5.1 Effects. 5.1 Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Skills and Equipment including Saving Rolls and Dodge movement. PLACE DEPLOYABLE SHORT SKILL / ARO Attack Requirements Have a Weapon or piece of Equipment with the Deployable Label. In the Reactive Turn, LoF to the Active Trooper is required. Effects Allows the user to place a Token on the game table to represent the Weapon or the piece of Equipment, with no Roll required. In the Active Turn, the Trooper can deploy the Token in Silhouette contact or, if he moved, in Silhouette contact with any part of his route. In the Reactive Turn, the Trooper must deploy it in Silhouette contact. The Token must be fully supported by the surface it is placed on and cannot be placed on a vertical surface. The Token is placed at the Conclusion of the Order in which the Trooper declared this Skill. (See FAQs & Errata. Repositioning is allowed if a Trooper has moved into the chosen position.) The enemy may only react against the Trooper that declares the Skill, not against the Weapon or piece of Equipment that is placed on the table during that Order or ARO. Once the Token has been placed on the Table, the Weapon or piece of Equipment is activated, and can be used in subsequent Orders/AROs. A Weapon or piece of Equipment that has been deployed on the battlefield will remain in play until the end of the game, until it is destroyed, or in case of Deployable Weapons, until detonated. By placing a Weapon or piece of Equipment, Deployment rules must be observed and, in the case of playing a scenario, the Deployment restrictions it may impose. A Deployable Weapon cannot be placed if there is an enemy Camouflage Marker inside its Trigger Area. This restriction does not apply if there is a valid, non-camouflaged enemy inside the Trigger Area, or an Intuitive Attack was made. Specifically this part of effects The Token is placed at the Conclusion of the Order in which the Trooper declared this Skill. (See FAQs & Errata. Repositioning is allowed if a Trooper has moved into the chosen position.) The enemy may only react against the Trooper that declares the Skill, not against the Weapon or piece of Equipment that is placed on the table during that Order or ARO. Is done because of this FAQ. Q: When using Place Deployable and declaring where the Deployable will be placed, what happens if a Trooper moves into that space before the Conclusion of the Order? A: The Trooper that declared Place Deployable may place the Deployable in a different position (still following the Place Deployable rule), and if this is not possible, the Deployable will be lost.
I’m not trying to argue I’m simply saying as you pointed out about the mine.it is deployed in the conclusion step 5.2 of the order ,with guts checks and seeking better cover, and alerts. If a model pushes a button or medics his team member it’s resolved in the effects phase. Why put mine into the conclusion, when all other skills that can happen even if the user goes unconscious are done in step 5.1 effects. There is already clear ruling that you cannot target the mine. Also The Token is placed at the Conclusion of the Order in which the Trooper declared this Skill. (See FAQs & Errata. Repositioning is allowed if a Trooper has moved into the chosen position.) The enemy may only react against the Trooper that declares the Skill, not against the Weapon or piece of Equipment that is placed on the table during that Order or ARO. 5.2 Conclusion: Guts Rolls are made. The effects of Guts Rolls and Alert are applied. End of the Order.
As I explained because of the FAQ. The FAQ tries to resolve the timing of models displacing themselves and deployable been deployed at the same time. The effect of placing a deployable as a skill is taking effect at step 5.1 same with button pushing ectr, the effect of the deployable been placed as a physical entity happens exactly after the skill been activated in 5.1 at 5.2.
i m still not seeing where anyone is getting that the mine is placed before the conclusion 5.2 i see the short order , but everything still states placed at the conclusion, the faq refers to: if during the conclusion step 5.2 the model and mine occupy the same location what the effect is. move mines final spot or it is lost. I think this should be worded better. either way it isn't a face to face roll so can stop the mine placement. thank you for your help
You acknowledge that a button push would still be applied even if the trooper responsible is unconscious because of failed saves in the effects step. Is this because the button pushing happens in the same phase as the saves?
maybe it will help you to know that mines and therefore the place deployable skill are from an edition of rules long before they had broken down the timing to the level they have now and always just happened "at the conclusion" The timing for mines for mines being placed could probably be moved to 5.1 Effects without any issues.
