Pretty much. YJ discord and forums get a lot of newer players asking about starting with IA, but at this point, the best advice to give is to just go with Torchlight. IA is just so thoroughly and completely outdone by this in ways that leave no real justification to continue using that sectorial anymore. IA no longer offers anything unique of value.
I just started playing around and finding it too restrictive. Only one core to choose from and it's expensive. Taking many of the cheaper figures makes in ineffective. Haris teams are almost the same. Only one haris team and it's either Rover, HB, or Kiudger team also is restrictive.
After trying to make some lists, I'm not so sure about that. So far IA has a lot more flexibility. Than TB does.
I'm not sure where you're seeing the deficiencies. The main core can be bulked out with 18 point Hellblazers while maintaining purity, and if purity doesn't concern you, then you can toss a 12 point hacker or Raveneye in there, too. Really, it looks to combine the best elements of both of IA's core options and improve upon them further. And that's even before you take into account the Silverstar Prime. There's some enormous versatility that you can build into there, and for cheap.
I agree its a more optimized (but still different) IA - with that cheap filler units you wonder why the Haidaos lost their Invincible keywords. While Daoying remains the best lt. in the game, new Raveneye cleary is the cheapest lt. +1 options. The CoC version is slap in the face of all sectorials that have to pay premium for CoC and you already have a cheaper option in form of the beautiful Ment ML Silver lost TA. So I just clicked this in about 5-10 min - I want a Optimus in there and the cheap camo-order-roadblock: Core remains BS+1 even if the Optiprime goes down or on its own, ML provides hard ARO and the Haris is second shooter / specialist haris. Waverider for Oblivon-casting. Looks workable. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 2 2 SILVERSTAR (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle, Light Riotstopper ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 32) SILVERSTAR Missile Launcher / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33) HELLBLAZER Light Shotgun, Flammenspeer / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 18) HELLBLAZER Submachine Gun, Blitzen / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 19) PRIME Heavy Machine Gun(+1 Dam), Heavy Riotstopper / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 53) KLUDGER (Engineer, Deactivator) Submachine Gun, Panzerfaust, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24) NIMROD FTO (BS Attack [Shock]) AP Marksman Rifle / AP Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31) MENT Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) WAVERIDER (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Oblivion (+1B)]) Submachine Gun, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 24) MOONRAKER (Minelayer) Heavy Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, Shock Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 16) GROUP 2 2 RAVENEYE (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Submachine Gun, E/Marat, Flash Pulse, E/M Mines ( | Holomask) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) LAMBDA (Doctor) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Looks fine on first sight... but is there any NCO to benefit from the LT Orders? Maybe it's my TAK-Blood, but I like this one. Damn, Torchlight is playing the dirty Vietcong style better than my TAK? ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 RAVENEYE (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Submachine Gun, E/Marat, Flash Pulse, E/M Mines ( | Holomask) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) PRIME Heavy Machine Gun(+1 Dam), Heavy Riotstopper / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 53) SILVERSTAR Combi Rifle, Light Riotstopper ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 29) KAPPA (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) WAVERIDER (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Oblivion (+1B)]) Submachine Gun, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 24) STRIDER (Minelayer, Specialist Operative) Submachine Gun, Shock Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) STRIDER (Minelayer, Specialist Operative) Submachine Gun, Shock Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) VIDOCQ (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage, Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 30) NIGHTSHADE (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun, Drop Bears, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 35) GROUP 2 3 MOONRAKER (Minelayer) Heavy Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, Shock Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 16) MOONRAKER (Minelayer) Heavy Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, Shock Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 16) KYTTÄ Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Ups - first try was with Sonya - but I can fit in a Vidoqc doc vs Ment and 2nd Moon for Kyttä and Warcore.
Not going to highjack the thread for too long, because it's still the 0-12 section of the forum, they have the right to enjoy their new shinies, and we should just keep our salt well contained as we usually do. But to quickly add on this: I was of the opinion that IA's big strength over similar heavies-with-guns style sectorials (MO, morats, etc...) was the ability for the sectorial to fall back on a full camo list (or perhaps "everything of value is camo" would be more accurate), which is pretty relevant in a tournament setting. Big heavy core with order spam is cool and all, but it has big strength and big weaknesses that makes some match-ups just impossible. Anything with hidden templates or hacker spam + GML tactics, is an absolute nightmare to face for an heavy core, so to have a semi reliable camo spam as back-up gives IA an interesting edge over, say, morats. Now, torchlight does this even better, with a strictly superior camo spam. Even though you can't hide your big guns like IA can hide its hac tao NCO HMG, and your lieutenant is very slightly more vulnerable. But amusingly, this is not even that relevant for Torchlight because: - 1) You have eclipse, and good one at that, so if you really want to you can pretty much bypass any engagement you don't like the look of. - 2) The height of firepower in the sectorial is not stucked in a fireteam core, the prime in haris, or even solo, is perfectly capable of taking care of all your gunfighting needs. Now this is huge. You don't have to spend 150pts just to have a chance to compete with top end ARO pieces like a bolt sniper and whatnot. -3) Unlike IA Torchlight has extremely good close range defense, and doesn't need to rely on hard, turret-like AROs who usually need a fireteam core to perform well enough. What that means is, you can just give the boot to big heavy cores if you want to, better spread your points and orders, and avoid most of the pitfalls IA can't really avoid. There's a rather popular playstyle for IA featuring heavy haris team, often in a second group, using NCOs and tac aware orders to effectively bring the list to 18/19 orders evenly spread between the two group. I've never been fond of that playstyle because I've never been able to play IA succesfully without mustering the best guns I could, but I believe this a perfect way to approach Torchlight. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 / 1 / 1 HIPPOLYTA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 40) RAVENEYE (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Submachine Gun, E/Marat, Flash Pulse, E/M Mines ( | Holomask) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) RAVENEYE Submachine Gun, E/Marat, Flash Pulse, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) BEASTHUNTER FTO (Minelayer) Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust, AP Mines / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 9) STRIDER (Minelayer, Specialist Operative) Submachine Gun, D-Charges ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) STRIDER (Minelayer, Specialist Operative) Submachine Gun, Shock Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) MOONRAKER (Minelayer) Heavy Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, Shock Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 16) MOONRAKER (Minelayer) Heavy Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, Shock Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 16) KYTTÄ Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) GROUP 2 / 3 PRIME Heavy Machine Gun(+1 Dam), Heavy Riotstopper / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 53) SILVERSTAR (Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle, Light Riotstopper ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 32) VIDOCQ FTO (Doctor) Boarding Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23) KAPPA (Hacker, Hacking Device) Submachine Gun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 12) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 4 SWC | 299 Points Now it's probably perfectible, but I believe it's an interesting start. Open in Infinity Army
I am sorry I do not see it, maybe IA needs an update, but I do not see Torchlight Brigade be this upgrade or perform a similar function, Invincibles are a professional military formation and the army list reflects that, Torchlight is more brash, more heroic.
anyone know if the raveneye lt option is legit or a random bug in army? because an LT+1 with holomask for 16pts seems far too cheap to me.
LT+1 is 4 points, so they're probably getting a discount (free) on the Holomask if you cross reference them with the Vanilla basic 12pt LT option. Again, benefits of playing 400pts there's actually more viable options to put on the table instead of the stagnant state the sectorial is in at 300pts. IA compares much better to TB when the Shang Ji actually running a pure core isn't a terrible meme.
Thank you for the polite post. I still think IA has its strengths over Torchlight. Its HI pain train seems to be more brutal and stuff like Zencha having climbing plus is a big deal. I do agree it seems to come down to Torchlight has a better midfield game while IA has the better HI paintrain.
I finally had a chance to make a list or two. I've tried making a cheap core with a Stormbot as the ARO piece. With a possibility of giving it marksmanship too. But I haven't been able to take the time to do more. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 1 1 STORMBOT FTO Heavy Rocket Launcher, Pulzar, E/M Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 29) HELLBLAZER Light Shotgun, Flammenspeer / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 18) KAPPA (Hacker, Hacking Device) Submachine Gun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 12) RAVENEYE Submachine Gun, E/Marat, Flash Pulse, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) VIDOCQ FTO (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / CC Weapon, Breaker Pistol. (1.5 | 28) FUZZBOT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15) RAVENEYE (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Submachine Gun, E/Marat, Flash Pulse, E/M Mines ( | Holomask) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) MENT Heavy Riotstopper(+2B) / Assault Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) WRECKER Heavy Machine Gun, Chain Rifle(+1B) / CC Weapon. (1.5 | 57) ZETBOT Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0) LAMBDA (Engineer, Deactivator) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) GROUP 2 3 1 STRIDER (Minelayer, Specialist Operative) Submachine Gun, Shock Mines, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) MOONRAKER Heavy Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, Shock Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) MOONRAKER Heavy Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, Shock Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) BEASTHUNTERS (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage, Forward Deployment [+8"]) Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust, AP Mines / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
I've been here in the forums as long as Janzerker. I have learned that if hes mad, I shall be happy. So hurray, O-12's got a great sectorial. :P If vanilla O-12 is superior Pano then yeah, Torchlight is superior IA. I am ok with this. (probably because I have never been a Yu Jing player)
New review for TB by goonhammer blog : 03/15/2024 - Infinity Faction Reveal: Torchlight Brigade - Goonhammer https://www.goonhammer.com/infinity-faction-reveal-torchlight-brigade/
They are not and that is the point. Striders and not Zhencha and they are not better Zencha, they are different, Silverstars are neither Zuyong nor Shang Ji and are not better, they are different. Torchlight is not a better Invincibles Army, its a different HI heavy faction that plays in a different way, maybe you want IA to play like Torchlight, I do not and I am more than happy with how IA plays. If IA needs an update, is another discussion altogether, but that update is not what Torchlight Brigade is.
So I ran TB vs Druze and had a blast, but I'm a little worried about their matches vs two types of things: 1) TAGs and 2) Elite Mim -6 factions (SP, Bakunin). How does TB handle these high end combat pieces? My instinct for the first is a) Wrecker, b) kill the cheerleaders, and c) infowar. For the second, templates in the midfield (Moonrakers, Striders). But will that work vs say Phoenix? Or how do we handle an Avatar?
