Honestly the saddest thing for me right now is Lunokhods New Moonrakers making them look like chumps lol
Very much agree. If the Lunokhod were 19pts I'm sure we would see it a bunch, even without FD and camouflage.
There's some more rules that make Shock relevant. First that comes to my mind is Dogged - found mostly on various cheap (but nasty) Warbands (from my own, Haqq yard: Ghazi Muttawi'ah, or Kum characters): sure, you can land a hit on them, but they'll keep coming. Who cares if they die on turn's end, if they'll still manage to do their points' worth of damage several times over? But if they buy a wound from a Shock ammo, they drop dead as a dodo. @Stiopa probably remembers that game from N3 when I've Fiday-ed his Sophotect, and then sent a Ghazi after his Marut (there was no resetting from EM aftereffects back then). And the sheer terror, when a mortally wounded Ghazi just kept coming, zapping the Marut till I ran out of Orders (yeah, the TAG succeeded in a couple of consecutive dodges). Then there are Shasvasti, where Shock can mean vital difference between "seed embryo still there, and counting for board control" and a guaranteed dead alien. I don't think so. My problem with Lunokhods is that they are armed with short-ranged weapons, and need to cover a lot of ground to get to the enemy deployment zone. In my local meta, tables don't exactly make that easy. Camouflage would make it more feasible. As would Forward Deployment. Otrzewise, I need to count on a favorable table layout, or relegate the Lunokhod to the role of a passive DZ guard / a model I might use in the late phase of the game, once the opponnet closes in.
My own experience with @Errhile's Lunokhod - granted, that was some time ago - was that when it can get close enough, it's a nuisance and a half. Errhile, were you really finding it so difficult to cross the board with it? Regarding Moonraker, I'd really like to understand how it compares to Peacemaker, especially in terms of pricing.
Not back in the day. But yes, very much nowadays. Perhaps we have changed the way we set up the tables over the years. Perhaps there are more long-ranged AROs now. But a large (S4!) drone that needs to make its way across the table, while not being able to effectively engage targets over 16" (shotgun!) and having no visual mods, yeah, I see it as a problem. If I could put it into a Fireteam - which is an option for Tsyklons and Vostoks, who already come equipped for long-ranged combat - and have someone else handle pushing through the long-ranged firefight element, have the team work as a delivery vehicle that unleashes the Lunokhod close to the target, we might be talking a different story. Add to that the changes that applied to the Crazy Koalas (and all the other Permieter Weapons) under N4 - they don't follow the Lunokhod around, creating a protective area-denial bubble around themselves, but they have to be actively deployed. Not saying the new rule is wrong, just that it works differently, and therefore makes Lunokhods (and other models with Perimeter Weapons) work differently. In my opinion, it did affect them negatively.
True. I remember a game, where my Lunokhod chases Saito over three orders with its heavy flamer ... somewhere N3 ... not sure I used it ever sinced then. I agree there is some use of the rule. But then please rewrite it so we not have to mention "immunity shock" on every 2+W/2+STR trooper. The most cases you make use of shock is with Multi-weapons (SMGs ;-) or when you are aware, that your trooper has BS attack shock (most of time I forgot of this when using my shang ji). Maybe dogged has to go up in price if shock leaves the game. Over all on thing we not have to think about. I think the later is the main use for it. And 25 pts is too expensive for that. I also not use Tsyklons very often since Vostok exist. It is about time to rework some older profiles.
I've been waiting for them to fix profiles for....what, 4 years now? Don't worry though, they might get to it in another 3 when N5 releases. Lunokhods, Arslan, actual Druze, Iguana, 75% of the profile options in this game....don't worry though, there will be a new merc to fill that hole in your roster. That's the most consistently frustrating and disappointing part of Infinity and CB. The constant new stuff but never going back to actually fix things they leave half done or getting close to releasing a complete model range for use. CJC for instance has 2 options for EVADER models, both in mixed boxes, both with SWC guns. Same goes for Wildcats. Blah blah CB proxy rules blah blah. Proxying sucks. It does. It's lazy and a way for them to avoid having to make models for things.
I definitely would like to see sparing updates. We're talking on the metric of maybe 18/24 months here. I don't want a revolving door of changes you can never bloody remember. But sparing updates would be good. Speaking purely re my own faction, let's be real, Lunokhods are shit, Lobos are maybe the worst unit in the game, there are some others like that too... in Haqq Khawarij are criminally underpowered (just give em NWI, come on) and some other options are pretty shit too. I am sure that each faction has 2-3 troops that no-one ever takes and really would it be so bad if they became decent? Food for thought anyway. I'm happy with most things. But some stuff I'll just never take and when there is a general consensus on that over a couple of years a change is merited imo.
Oh, how they have fallen from the days of old koala rules and old minesweeper! Goddamn did I love stealing enemy mines, koalas, and (only once) netrods. All that with active-following deployed koalas which could set off mines themselves if needed.
I don't disagree that Khawarij are bad rn, but aside from NWI being overdone on these kind of units, I think that NWI wouldn't actually help them - they'd still be comparatively inferior to the Mukhtar. The best Khawarij rework idea I've heard was to give them BS Attack (AP) but keep em at 1W. That gives them a niche where they trade off the survivability of the Mukhtar for hitting a lot harder. Maybe get rid of their CC at the same time so they can stay at the same price roughly (or even get cheaper) while not cheating the points system. Their CC in it's current state is pure bloat anyway.
Wouldn't it be faster, easier and probably more fun to just nerf the newest 25% of the game rather than buff the old stuff? Would be a godsend for readability too, there are way too many skills on most new releases. Boot the fake-2W off everything but Aspects and HI, cut down the points-cheating modifier skills and just pay for a damned MULTI-Rifle, take Specialist Skills off elite gunfighting profiles?
Lunokhods need a little tweak. As I suggested yesterday, being a Wildcard-linkable (like Tsyklons and Vostoks are) would be an option, especially there's no longer the catch of Koalas behaving sorta-kinda-like Ghost: Synchronized models (which was an absolute no-no for a Fireteam-capable model, and for good reason I think). Otherwise, rearrange the armament to give the Lunokhod a longer-ranged option (and no, Akrylat Kanone doesn't cut it). One could consider rebuilding the profile with Mimetism and / or Forward Deployment. But that would be imitiating the PanO ArmBots, and it would also increase the cost. So yeah, my best guess would be Wildcarding them. Shouldn't affect the cost, but should give them back enough viability to make them show on table. Lobos? I think Lobos are fine. Not perfect, but fine. A solid statline, some solid equipment options. Some things I would personally change: Drop that odd CC +3 mod, and give them CC of 23. Works exactly the same, as in opposition to MArts it cannot be affected by NBW. Or change it to CC -3, if that was the intention form the start. As-is, it is just confusing. Did anyone use that Flashpulse +1 B? For me, Flashpulse is a handy ARO tool on models who have it (and do not have much else): has some range, and is based off a stat that's higher than BS. But bonus Burst Flashpulse means it is intended for active turn use, and I don't see any point in using Flashpulse offensively. Note that Lobos aren't the only offenders there. I'd trim it. Biometric Visor... how much does it cost? Because if it is a 1-2pt fluff piece, I'm okay with it. If it is 4+ pts piece, it is too expensive for how useful it is. All in all, I don't see much point in deploying Lobos to their full AVA, as a base for a Core Fireteam - but used conservatively, like hot chili, they can defintiely spice up an Alguacile Core with one, maybe two hardboiled elite troopers. I've faced such an Alguacile team, and they were abslutely a nuisance. They can also provide some extra capabilites to a Correctional Fireteam - NCO, mid-ranged firepower (Red Fury), Specialist Operatives, ADHL / Riotstopper. Khawarij, well, they have always been a problem. Or rather, they always had a problem. One, they've always been considered a glass hammer unit, that was their design philosophy from day one. Two, there always was Tarik Mansuri, who costed less than two Khawarijs, and had... not exactly none of their downsides, but certainly way fewer of them. CB's answer was to load the glass hammer Khawarijs with extra gear. Making them more of a hammer... but still glass. Also, IMO, Superjump troops are ill-suited for use as full-sized Core Fireteam. A Haris is way more manageable. And also- putting them in teams with models without the Superjump capability reduces its effectiveness. My ideas on fixing The Red Turbans? While far from perfect...: Given how Bioimmunity works, is there any reason not to drop the skill from the game, and give every unit that had it matching BTS & ARM...? With ARM 3, Khawarij would be... pretty durable. I'm not sold on them having Natural Born Warrior. It probably has some fluff reasoning, but even with CC 22 and AP+Shock CCWs those aren't the guys I'd want to see in CC. Actually I think giving Khawarijs Sixth Sense would do a lot of good for them. It'd give them an edge against Surprise Attacks and MSV + Smoke. Khawarijs being veteran soldiers adept in guerilla warfare makes it, IMO, appropriate (and heck, if you need to drop NBW and a few points of CC to balance for it, be my guest!). Also, the only other unit in Ramah with Sixth Sense is Al Fasid, so not an ability already overabundant in the sectorial. I'd love to see them moving at 6-4, to keep pace with Tarik, but I guess that'd be stepping too much on his toes. With these changes, we'd have small fireteams of highly-mobile, hard-hitting models, with decent armor, and enough common sense not to let just anyone surprise them. Not superb close combat fighters, and not hiding behind the extra durability of 2 W or 1 W NWI Shock immunity (actually, I'd keep Shock Immunity on them, it is a good reason to bring the Doc along).
This thing with Lobos is that Wildcats are better. And Wildcats are already not the greatest unit in the game... Also, Lobos are paying a lot for CC skills that you don't want to use anyway.
Except that Wildcats don't count-as Alguaciles. Nor as Diablos, although the second case is, indeed, not that relevant, IMO.
But Wildcats are BS13 and not 12. So in the end, all you gain for using a Lobo to get full FT bonuses is +1 BS. Meh, at best, especially considering that you're depriving yourself from a Jazz, an Evader, etc... And you lose the VMS, which puts you at -2 BS compared to a Wildcat against anything mimetic. I really don't see the benefit of using a Lobo, except for the nice mini.
@Errhile, did you have an opportunity to field Correctional Fireteam in CJC? Seems like one of the main uses for Lobos, I wonder how it performs.
I've tried a Diablo / Jaguar Haris. Wasn't half bad, once it made into close range (and it had Jaguar's Smoke to help with that), and inexpensive. I don't recall using a Lobo with them yet. Night've been I had no models painted yet. As for a Corrective Core, I don't really see the point: I've been trying Jaguar full Cores (with Senor Massacre being mandatory for compositon at some point) in N3, and found them a nuisance to maneuver. Apart from extra bodies to absorb the casaulties, the larger team does nothing for them. Sure, once you swarm your opponent, you'll get them dead-dead, but generally this works only for a single target. And robs you of the opportunity for a shooty Core elsewhere on the table. A mixed Lobo / Diablo full Core? Expensive. Situationally, in a CQB scenario, it might be actually a pretty useful choice (say, two Lobos: BSG / Direct Template plus the Red Fury / NCO, and three Diablos to do the bashing) - but as I said, situational, for a very specific scenario. For a regular game - absolutely not worth it, IMO.
