I started playing Infinity in 2018. I loved it, and played around 2-3 games/week for the past six years. It was a big part of my life, and I’m very sad to see it go. But lately it’s gotten steadily less fun, and though I tried to keep enjoying it, I’m finally giving up. Power creep I like a challenge. I like that my faction, Haqqislam, isn’t one of the top-tier factions. Two years ago, I still enjoyed the extra challenge of playing top-tier factions like SP and CA. But over the past couple of years, the top factions have been slowly buffed and buffed to the point that playing against them is no longer a fun challenge – it’s become a pointless slog. It started with the SP buffs in Blackwind. SP units now get all the best skills, discounted, and concentrated in single profiles. They break all the design rules that CB used to follow. Smoke on a strong gunfighter? Specialist on a strong gunfighter? There are good reasons that CB used to avoid those combinations. SP gets both, and both on the same units, and the smoke is Eclipse, and those units have all the other best skills like NWI, good stats, CC, and are linkable, and get the Frenzy/Impetuous discount points cheat. Playing against SP just isn’t fun anymore. There are other examples, of course, the new favored child Bakunin is certainly frustrating too. But I slogged on. And now… one of the (many) known problems with Reinforcements was that the new profiles were so uneven: some of the already-strongest factions got Reinforcements that were drastically stronger than other factions’. It didn’t matter because nobody played reinforcements anyway. But yesterday’s announcement that those profiles are all being added to the base game was the last straw for me. It’s like a year’s worth of power creep in a single day. I’m sick of the slog. I want to play a challenging game, not an impossible game. Profile bloat Infinity has too many factions and too many profiles. I don’t particularly care that most profiles are too bad to use. I’m happy to just use the best profiles and ignore the rest. But there’s gotten to be so many that they’ve all lost their identity. O12 was a warning sign: we didn’t need a new faction and, unsurprisingly, we got a boring “better pano” faction. CB is out of ideas, but keeps churning out new content while letting the existing stuff languish. The recent announcement of yet another new sectorial was the last straw for me on this one. CB should be cutting sectorials, not adding new ones. No rules support A few years ago, CB abruptly stopped answering rules questions. Their rules representative simply stopped posting. (I can’t check exactly when it was, because his old posts now seem to have all been deleted?!) It’s frustrating to have to search through years-old forum posts to find the answers to basic rules questions. It’s gotten worse the older the posts have gotten. It sucks to have to tell new players “it works this way, but you’ll just have to believe me unless you want to wait while I search for the answer that was posted four years ago.” It also means that the same rules debates now keep coming up over and over again, and it’s incredibly tedious. Bland models Three years ago, CB was knocking it out of the park with fantastic models. Remember the Shang Ji box? My Shang Ji, proxied as an Asawira, is still my favourite model in my collection. Saladin? Mukhtar hacker? Lots of great stuff. Now? Blackwind was a complete miss, at least on the Haqq side. The Lasiq was the only model in that box that I’d even consider painting. The new Muyibs and Govads are punishingly boring. The new Reinforcements models are garbage. There are a few exceptions, but I find CB barely ever releases anything I want to paint anymore. Outdated mechanics I’d never played any wargame except Infinity. Recently, I tried a modern game with alternating activations. It was so refreshing! No spending 30 minutes watching my opponent play their turn. No turns spent entirely on one bike/bear/pitcher/whatever while the rest of the army hangs around in the back. It felt like a proper skirmish between two groups of space soldiers. CB neglect All the above happened gradually. For a long time I kept playing anyway, and I would still keep playing if I thought anything was ever going to improve. But it isn’t. It’s become completely clear that CB has given up on Infinity. They don’t care, and they don’t care that we know they don’t care. Putting their resources into developing a new Extra, when the base game needed so much work, was a huge mistake in itself. But then the Extra was a joke. Given the effort they say they put into it, it’s just an embarrassment. So obviously terrible in so many ways. Then, after saying for months that they were listening to player feedback and reworking Reinforcements, yesterday’s announcement was a slap in the face. What were they doing all those months? They’ve done nothing to fix Reinforcements (the commlink tax was the absolute least of the Extra’s many problems), and they’ve ignored everything that’s wrong with it which was explained out over and over. Instead, they just mindlessly dumped all the profiles into the main game with no thought to the impact it would have. I give up. CB has ruined Infinity, they don’t care, and they’re never going to fix it. I’m out.
I understand. I have always enjoyed your content and willingness to try new things and not chase the meta. You brought a lot of wonderful discussion to the forum and I looked forward to your posts. I am sad to see you you leave. I don't disagree with most of what you said, but it has not reached a breaking point for me. I still feel Haqqislam is fun and like the underdog aspect. But I respect your experiences and feel sorrow that we are losing your voice in the dwindling forum. Good luck and I hope you find something deserving of your passion.
Def agree with Brokenwolf - it's gonna sad to see you go, but I understand (and mostly agree with) your feelings and reasoning. The disparity in support in terms of rules/unit updates and mini releases is also a bit disheartening. Blackwind, at least for the Haqq side of it, feels increasingly insubstantial given there is so much of HB that is still pretty bad mechanically (Lasiqs, Muyibs, Govads, Yasbir, Shujae), especially compared to the love that BJC got and is still getting with little things like the Aftermath update. I think Haqq as a whole had one of the lowest number of new minis released between all the factions last year.
That sucks man, you were a great person to play with (even if you kicked my ass most of the time). I do think the bones of the game are in a better state than it's ever been (Except Fireteams, which are still there despite coordinated orders being a better system), but I can't disagree with anything you've said - those issues I all feel myself. In particular, the lower sculpt quality - there are a lot more duds these days, in particular the posing. It's like they aren't putting enough effort into 1/2 of them, even if the design was good. It's great you're trying other games - there are some great ones out there - but each game has strength & weaknesses, and I do think Infinity is still up there, despite your very valid issues. I would just say that I think Infinity still feels like a modern game - there is some cruft, but the way it handles IGOUGO activation makes it imho an interesting alternative to alternate activation. As someone who has walked away from a lot of games, and tried (and continues to play) a lot of them, I would say just keep your infinity and sit on it for a while. Play other games, and periodically check in on Infinity, and see if you get the bug again. If it becomes a secondary game, (my fav game is Frostgrave, though I still play Infinity every week) you might find a better balance and still enjoy the game occasionally, in a more casual way.
Sorry to see you go, but I can absolutely relate, especially in regards to recent sculpt design. Hopefully you'll stick around lurking (as I do) to maybe get back into the fold at some point in the future, if things take a turn for the better someday.
I agree with most of the princible problems You've laid out above @QueensGambit ! I came really close to quitting a while back too, once I finally accepted the fact that CB's focus is everywhere but on Infinity, and there are no signs that they're returning to their main game - on the contrary! I find it to be such a grave sin, that Infinity N4 has everything it needs to be a damn near perfect game if the support was there, but despite countless opportunities and ample data/opinions from a fantastic community, CB is not only failing to adress the well known and carefully documented rules and/or balance issues, they seem to be (like You implied) half-assing the new stuff too. The amazing friends I hobby Infinity with and the wider global community have me staying for a while longer, but I've resigned myself to stuff like trying out 4+ Ninja lists and not playing any Factions with access to Pitchers... Let's hope Warcrow turns out great, and more importantly, that You find the game/games that make You happy to hobby and play them - You deserve it! Take care mate, save some seats for the rest of us where ever You end up!
Sad stuff, @QueensGambit , but definitely relatable. I'm surprised you played "only" since 2018, had some feeling like you were here longer. I have to agree with most of what you've written. To be honest I'm myself on a vacation from Infinity. Played it for over 10 years, organized over hundred events and gave myself a time off at the end of 2022. Almost didn't play in 2023. And not sure if it'll change in this year. Sad, but true. PozdRawiam / Greetings
Thanks for speaking out about it QG. Some people say the same things to me privately because infinity community backlashes are so awful, there's a bit of a cult vibe to it sometimes. But you gotta stand up for what's right, what matters, and how you feel. I've been playing Conquest: the last argument of kings for over 6 months now and spent a couple thousand dollars on it already. Seeing the developers make changes every few months that directly respond to community concerns is just mind-blowing after 8 years of CB for me. I stopped all CB spending ages ago and am actively selling my armies second hand.
I definitely get a lot of your complaints. The power creep is definitely the biggest one, IMO. The power curve has shifted steeper in a lot of really frustrating ways, to the point where I don't look forward to games if I know my opponent is going to be playing Steel Phalanx or Bakunin. Infinity may be mostly better balanced than a lot of other games out there, but in addition to widening gaps between the factions that are more and less supported, the ways that the most potent factions end up being empowered tend to end up making them increasingly unenjoyable to deal with.
Yeah, I get you. For me it was more or less two years ago, when I faced Avatar + Taiga list. And all the time I was thinking "how the f@ am I supposed to fight this?!" Plus newest models are just... Meh. I remember when I lokked and Infinity news and thought "Oh my god, it's so damn good, I NEED THIS RIGHT KNOW". Now I'm like "Ok, weird sculpt, and I can paint it better". And as for the CB neglect: well, I have a warcor status while not doing anything Infinity-related for 4 years :P That's how they manage this game.
Welcome to my world. Since I started (way back at the start of N2), about 80% of the new releases for most of the factions have been something I've had zero interest in wanting to paint (this is the prime motivator for me to get them, since I do not play with unpainted models and If I'm not going to paint them, I'm not buying them). This hasn't really changed at all since (it's gone up to 90% for certain factions, though). I'd rather convert a model from another line and proxy it than use the model they released.
I completely agree in most of your points, being a cynic myself the difference would be that I think you were softer than they deserve. I was just checking the "new additions" to White Banner (the reinforcements) and was dumbfounded to see the Haetae was now a S2 outside of reinforcements (yes, its a problem in vanilla, WB, computer and android app...)... When they can't even add an existing profile consistently, well, I'm grateful they sell miniatures instead of manage a nuclear plant. Also, as for the timing on the "update" to reinforcements, I think I was more or less on point with the dates, similar to the smoke combo with the symcro civilian in ITS10. Which is depressing, they show a reaction capacity a tectonic plate would have even for the smallest things. Now, I think I get the game they are playing: keep Infinity more or less on autopilot a year or two since the last KS did not earn as much as Defiance (understatement) while all hands on deck prioritize Warcrow so it can be "a guaranteed success" this august, giving much needed revenue (it's expected, since they have been producing material for Warcrow for months without getting money from that, on the other hand when they start selling it would be the other way around) to get more people and keep both lines running at full, and in august 2025 whip out N5 (another copy-paste rules book with content cut and minimal rewriting) and start a new round of Operations boxes. My bet is that, unless they manage to attract new players (which is not very likely with how prices keep going up, specially now that the 3D models of cyberpunk/scifi themes are getting to critical mass and you can have a model the size and mass of the Haetae for 10-15% the price in materials, half the price in stores...) and Warcrow is a success (which I hope for their sake, but won't be holding my breath: they plan to land in a market oversaturated with non-metal fantasy models usign siocast). Heck, about 10% of my O12 models are 3D prints not only because the price, but because I prefer the looks and poses... I can think of so many things going wrong...
Yeah, I feel you Queen. Honestly, after Tidewater Tempest I think I might start checking other games again, I have been spending more time playing Battletech and RPGs... Our local group doesn't really meet up much as much since the local store gave our biweekly time slot to Horus Heresy, models have been very hard to order through FLGS, and the ones I have gotten recently... have been rough. Maybe it's just bad luck, but I have gotten a lot of bad new metal models recently where the square connections channels don't line up, flash is big, and important details are filled in. I'm tired of filing, cutting, and resculpting because the Sunduqbut had a chunk of it's face malformed so it lost an eye, or having to sculpt a new piece of torso for the Muyib because the part that slots into the chest is 2-3 millimeters too long to fit. It's not even Siocast, I can't blame the material because my Armbots and Shakush were fine, the quality control on metal models seems to have fallen. And the army app is starting to be frustrating at the best of times. Every update adds a bunch of changes and errors that are poorly documented, and we don't know if it will take weeks to fix or years. Like the Lasiq Marksman Rifle got fixed a few days ago, and it's been wrong since Blackwind went on preorder. Sure rules as intended were obvious, but rules as written they had the wrong gun and the Infinity community can sometimes be atrocious rules lawyers about it. Burkut just lost 3 skills without explanation including NWI, am I gonna have to go to the next tournament and try to bargain with my opponent "oh actually he's supposed to be NWI and religious, but the last update accidentally removed it." Was it an intentional nerf to the Burkut they forgot to write down like a lot of changed profiles alongside every update? Did someone accident delete the skills? FTO Korsan profiles were added for some reason, but Vanilla can't duo them and QK doesn't need FTO Korsans for fireteam construction. It's not because they are reinforcements, because that's a separate data entry in the app, so it was added for some reason. Apparently Maggie had courage accidentally for years and no one knew, and she doesn't get a discount for losing it. If it wasn't worth anything, could we have kept courage and lost religious? It's just a little sad man. A year ago I was having a lot of fun, but it's starting to feel like I'm forcing myself to go to the monthly tournaments. And online activity through Discord and Reddit seems to be slowing down too, so I don't think it's an uncommon sentiment.
I wonder how much effort it would take to solve most of these issues on the rules-side with a homebrew, pruning unit choices, rebalancing obvious offenders etc. Have any of you tried something like this before?
Yes. I know of half a dozen serious attempts to implement custom versions of the game for competitive play, online where we play on TTS. All of them have been terribly received, there's something about the idea of dudes feeling like someone is gatekeeping their game, that brings out the worst hate I've seen in the community. We've tried, trust me.
Wow, hold on. You never played any other war game and suggesting to change the defying thing of Infinity the game? If you change it it won’t be Infinity anymore. Talking about outdated mechanics, what are you talking about is actively used wince 90s.
I play vs Steel Phalanx and Bakinun frequently, and don't find them to be that much better or worse than they were before the changes. When a new player encounters a TR Bot for the first time, they will often express sentiments very similar to those expressed here. And we tell them play it a few times, try this, or that, or this... and it turns out to actually not be a big deal after all. I would write more but I think that pretty much sums it up.
I respect your reasons but disagree with them. Very little of what you have said is reflected in our meta, and the reinforcement profiles have only just dropped into Army, so feels a little rash to use that as the final straw. But I understand every area is different. For example, we just had Cancon and there wasn’t a single SP army! So either they aren’t as strong as you are making out, or people who play here in Australia aren’t power gamers wish you all the best, hopefully you return some day
I'm also suspended from the game, I'm playing something else. You are right about many of the things you said. I see that Haqqislam is currently abandoned and its miniatures, at one time one of the best in the game, are currently quite boring. In N4 the haqqislam glass cannon thing became very frequent and it became boring to me.
