I've put the Extreme Zellenkrieger to a test today (LSG loadout) and... I kinda think he needs a rewrite, compared to his non-Extreme counterpart. Stat-wise, Extreme Zellenkrieger has PH +2 advantage (for a total of PH 15). Defintely useful for Dodging, causing CC damage (but for that he needs to get into CC first!) and tossing Smoke Greandes. He also has +2" Dodge. Viral Immunity is just a gimmick IMO. Basic Zellenkrieger has PH 13, so he's no slouch either. His dodge is +1", he's cheaper by 1 point, but the crucial difference is in size: he's S2, while the Extreme is S5. And this makes for a critical difference in tactical mobility - he can hide where his Extreme colleague couldn't. Which I find pretty important for a cheap, disposable Impetous Irregular Warband. He also brings the potentially useful MetaChemistry (ReRoll).
In the contest of druze, i tink zellen are useful, but not essential, since we have yuans They makke a substantial difference in the reinforcements meta because of linkability: denma makes for a aggressive haris/duo that before costed an arm and a leg with wolfgang
For me they are really useful because they allow Yuan been Yuan and nor relegated to smoke delivery platforms. No opinion on Extreme Zellenkrieger.
Oh, they are both very handy as smoke sources. And cheap at that. I've, actually, made a lot of use out of an Extreme Zellenkrieger-provided smoke with a Core-linked Brawler sniper in my last game. But I have been thinking - would I be better off with a basic Zellenkrieger? Given the trade-off (lose 2 PH and 1" of dodge move, gain MetaChemistry ReRoll - with a 20% chance of getting +3 PH, among other goodies, and a more manageable Silhouette of 2), I see no real advantage for the Extreme Zellenkrieger here. OK, he's more eye-catching with the bigger model (I've used Batard for mine). But that's about it... And with Tactical Window being the standard these days, the appeal of fielding a number of Irregular (even if Impetous) models is limited, for they limit your Order pool (even more so with a Limited Insertion!). One per Combat Group is OK, two - you better have a good idea on how to maximize on their effect. Because they'll eat Regular Orders from your other models. Now, if the Irregular had enough stuff to make him a primary piece, a heavy hitter, someone you'd be dumping Orders into anyway - it would be a different kettle of fish. Most Irregulars are, however, on the cheap end of the scale. Not that it is wrong on its own, just something one has to keep in mind when building a list.
Truth be told, at 300 pts i manage well with 8 regulars in group 1 (7 if I start, thank to taowu) That said, Zellens being impetuous i feel that they are not order intensive: often are alright using just their own orders and playing smokes, i feel, unless you want to do something specific with them. Yuans tende to eat more regulars, since they want to sow Chaos I also amnalright with few orders cause usually i like to use my warbands to do damage turn 1, with the occasional spec grenade. The biggest thing of druze IMHO Is not to have many orders, but to conserve them throughout the game
I'd love to see some of your lists :) Because while I can work with 2 Irregulars in a group, I find that attrition to my regular models hurts me really bad in turn #3 or even #2. And the less models I had to start with, the more restricted i feel down the game.
Ext. Zell is a bargain-bin McMurrough: smoke and dodge up the board and then Pulzar something (I like that option better than the light shotgun, lots of people don't "worry" about BTS against shooters nearly as much) or Berserk into something. And then die, but take them with you (or don't, he's 9 points, it's worth the shot)
Sure, that's an interesting take on it. Still, McMurrough has the mobility (6-4 and Superjump) and hitting power (with MArts and AP+DA CCW) - granted ,at 3x times the cost - that makes it feel, IMO, worth the orders you pump into him to get him upfield. Extreme Zellenkrieger... well, not so much...
I mean, is he going to kill the Avatar? Probably not. Can he use an Impetuous order to move+smoke and cover some other model's approach and maybe dodge up close enough to large template a couple scrubs or Berserk into something of value (trading ~30pts. for his 9pts.)? Probably. You can "throw him away" on a murder-run that you'd be afraid/unwilling to risk McMurrough on
And what do you think guys about Denma? He's regular, 6-2", martial arts 1, PH14, AP+DA ccw... And just 12pts! I've not tried them yet, but I think it's my first try
I can't argue with that. 9pts model is a 9pts model. However, a Regular Order is a Regular Order, regardless of the point value of the model you're spending it on. That's why I'm wondering. I feel that Denma differs enough from the rank-and-file Zellenkrieger that he can't be assessed by association. And I haven't had a chance to test him yet (and won't have for a while, because he's available in just one - DBS - army of the 7 I currently play).
Yeah the 15 order limit definitely makes them less useful. I really don't like that rule in general. I hate the whole, "How many orders are on the board? 14, so I know you have one drop troop..." makes the game a bit too meta. But I guess they had to do something to deal with the order spam that was happening. So YMMV I guess...
I agree, Order spam was a problem in its day. You couldn't play against it without fielding an Order spam of your own... Well, the 15-order-limit was definitely a change. Something we had to get used to. I've just agreed to play some 250pts/10 orders games against one of my local players. I guess that'll be a yet another kind of Infinity (which is good IMO!).
Having tested Denma Connoly and Zellenkrieger last game (Highly Classified vs. Corregidor), I'd say I'm staying by my initial thought. The basic Zellenkrieger (LSG) got MOV 8-4 out of his Metachemistry, in his inital Impetous Move got a combined ADHL response out of the two Jaguars in Core, and failed his Smoke. So, he was glued down pretty well. He took quite a while before he was able to Dodge out of Immobilized, and then he did, he could only dash forward and attempt to LSG a Moran Massai to death (falling to combined AROs in the process, but I think I made out on top on this trade. The Moran made both his ARM saves, but there is no Zellenkrieger's fault in that). Compared to an Extreme Zellenkrieger, I would have had a better chance of successfully setting up Smoke, or Dodging out of IMM. But no chance of getting that sweet MOV 8-4. Denma didn't do much (apart form providing a Regular Order), because I needed to pump several Orders into Le Muet (suppressing a Feuerbach EVAder in Haris, and then taking out two Core-linked Jaguars with Panzerfausts), and then there was a Hellcat landing in my DZ with a Spitfire, and shooting (among others) Denma in the back. So Denma's Metachemistry: Superjump didn't had a chance to be relevant.
So far used Denma twice in a haris of HMG, killer hacker and Denma, a decent smoke carrier always dependent on the metachemistry roll though, but I failed to properly utilize him not sure I would use a normal zellenkrieger as their irregular would make their order breaking the link. I need more practice with them to remember their full kit, I wasted a lot of orders to Walz a triphamer to destroy a beacon when I could have used Denma easier and faster if I had remembered he has AP+DA CCW
I perceive them as filling a similar niche to Yuan Yans. They are both Impetous Irregular Warbands with Smoke Grenades. However, Yuan Yuan are Combat Jumpers, which is quite an unique ability in DBS. Their Booty is a mixed bag - sometimes brings shooting goodies, sometimes other stuff. Zellenkrieger are a more conventional warband - more Close Combat-oriented than Yuan Yuan. MetaChemistry also has an interesting chance of improving their mobility (otherwise, it tends to improve their resilience). Not a big difference in the role of an impetous Smoke thrower, but if they end up in a CC, they have a good chance of causing serious harm to the target. Are they something DBS couldn't do without? Certainly not. They don't plug any major hole in the DBS' writeup. But they are handy to have.
It seems to me the main difference is how you want your fit your play style or what's fun. One combat jumps, the other can be in a fire team. Actually quite a nasty team too. Druze+Zell+Taowu+Denma+Digger! That's fun! ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 4 1 3 DRUZE (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) TÁOWÙ (Counterintelligence) Nanopulser(+2B), Flash Pulse(+1B) / Viral Pistol(+1B), Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 25) ZELLENKRIEGER FTO Pulzar(+1B) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), DA CC Weapon. (0 | 8) DENMA CONNOLLY Chain Rifle(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol(+1B), AP + DA CC Weapon. (0 | 12) DIGGER Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 18) 0 SWC | 91 Points Open in Infinity Army
