I'm gonna be honest, even with all the stuff going in this forum I wasn't expecting "Infinity is like LIFE" to be an actual argument. I'm just gonna bow down now.
It is a hopefully relatable example that lead to the argument. Where some people see inconsistency I see a down to earth description of a human sphere: Imperfect, driven by politics, greed, self-interest, good-will and other motivators. Which is described in the fluff. Nomads disregard the "only one AI" rule and obviously no one really cares enough for O12 to act (in an efficient way). Maybe because there are more important things to worry about, maybe because many important powers profit from it, maybe because Nomads are playing their cards well and do not let the topic go viral. Nomads are the sassy child of the human sphere in this regard. One day they may pay for it, or not. Many sassy childs do not get the education they need. Maybe if the rogue AIs blow up one of the mother ships, the Nomads will start to think about what they created. Until then - hey, it is Robin Hook, how cool!
I do agree that there's a consistency here. Bad things only happen to some factions, while others are consistently shielded from any harm /s Seriously though, don't dismiss issues some of us have with writing and game design. Where some people see nothing out of line, and well balanced game and narrative, some see flaws that seriously hamper the joy we're getting out of the game. Not everyone is as stoic about things as Haqq players (this is a compliment for them, btw). I should know, I sold off entirety of my PanO due to anything other than MO being stuck in creative limbo.
Words of truth and wisdow there. If I could upvote multiple times I would do. I had a kinda heartbreaking chat few days back with someone about those issues in the game, and I feel sad everytime people are depressed because of the supposedly "fun" hobby they play for years because people love to hate-talk or dismiss their legitimate issue because "lol, it's part of the joke dude!".
I assume you mean this here: Spoiler: Spoiler “I just want to put something to rest. The stories about this ‘Robin Hook,’ some kind of Rogue AI? Hero to the people? Steals from the rich, and looks out for the underclass? Look, it’s a nice story, but that’s all it is. A story. Fairy tale. We’ve seen Rogue AIs with slave bodies, or duplicates, whatever you want to call them, and Svengali’s no joke. And even if there was a Robin Hook, we’d probably have to arrest her, and then you’d all riot. So, let me be clear on this: Robin Hook? Is. Not. Real. No such thing.…She’s right behind me, isn’t she?” — Moderator Chief Argot Winslow, holding a press conference while Robin Hook was, in fact, right behind them sarcasm: Sure, they deny the existence of a Rogue AI because, since the Nomad Nation has not signed any treaty, as you stated before, regarding the Utgar Accords or the Sole AI law, they could parade their AIs all in front of a Maya program and there would be no consequences. /sarcasm I would ask you to be consistent with your answers, but I find more fun this grasping for straws, and I enjoy inmensely when someone gets so deep into contradicting statements, they can't avoid self-defeat. A shame you are unable to admit it, and thus learn.
I am glad you enjoy yourself, but I am afraid you get wrong basic fluff background you can find in the rulebook.
Well, he just proved YOU wrong, with quotes from the source book and all. But you are so knowledgeable in the lore that it won't take you a minute to find the quote saying Nomads didn't sign the Treaty all the other countries in O12 signed and shut us up for good, right? Go ahead, I have all the books, just tell us the book and page number, or copy/paste the quote here like Xagroth just did to disprove your made up stuff.
Fine since you are so inclined. Go to Aleph sourcebook page 11 for Nomads refusing any of their money paid to O-12 go towards project Toth, you can find the same thing in other places, likewise, you can go to N4 rulebook on page 119 and read about Nomad Commercial missions and how Nomads declare them as embassies and use their sovereign diplomatic immunity to block local or international laws from applying there, in page 136 in π-wells background it states it would be illegal outside of Nomads Jurisdiction. you can find on the 3rd offensive page 153 that the SSS presence is forbidden in Nomads, in page 74 of Endsong it states SSS know Robin Hook exists and cannot go into Nomads territory to get her. I can find more but I do not think it is needed, I spend enough of my personal time to prove something that is both obvious and known from the first Infinity rulebook. Nomads do not like Aleph and do not pay for its maintenance, Nomads operate in a zone that is not legally overseen by Aleph or O-12 as their basic function is to be outside of international law and they use any and every legal leverage to keep it that way.
It’s almost as if, from the beginning of the lore, Nomads have operated with at least one, if not one and a half, outside of the law and O-12 dictates. Crazy that three ships full of people wanting to live outside the strictures of planetary society would only do enough to maintain status as a nation, and not a single thing more.
My goal is not to dismiss issues. I have problems with some forum members being overly aggressive and putting words in PS‘ mouth which he has not said. Respect to you, PS, for staying calm. Other times I can not follow some of the arguments, as they add different pieces together which do not belong together from my point of view. Then I discuss. I try to be open for other views, but the arguments have to convince me. Why? Where does this mandatory action of O12 stems from? I also have 20 years of experience in RPG and tabletop (does this have any relevancy?). In my experiences, some players tend to tunnel vision: The fluff describes something and now it is a godly enforced fact. Like „no AI besides Aleph and it is fiercely enforced“ -> for some players, this translates to „there must be no rogue AI, else there would be devastating sanctions or outright war!“ which leads to „any rogue AI without sanctions/war is inconsistent“ The other perspective is: Rogue AIs make the setting more interesting, as you have conflict. The law is „fiercely enforced“, because Aleph is the only official, legal AI in the whole human sphere. No power like PanO or Yu Jing has their own AI (at least officially). Other AIs can not move freely. This means the law is in effect and it is effectual. Of course you have some factions that will create conflict (Nomads or the possibility of the Hassassins AI), as this setting is about conflict. Then you have the tale of „Nothing bad happens to Nomads“. Did Corregidor not suffer in Raveneye? (I can not remember right now) Regarding Bakunin: The fluff is quiet clear that the Observance are crazy fundamentalists who came to power and that many citizens of Bakunin fear them. In my book, crazy fundamentalists that are gaining power and are willing to go great length to twist the truth for their religious dogma is „a bad thing“ happening to Bakunin right now. What level of „bad“ are we talking about and how many factions did suffer an Uprising level of „bad“, if this was the benchmark?
There is also a scale to be considered, Nomads is a tiny nation it cannot suffer dramatic losses, the destruction of the Corregidor's habitational satellite Modulo Satellite and its 12 thousand inhabitants was a more traumatic event than people think, for the Nomads it was a serious loss of life and a vast destruction of recourses invested, to solve the overpopulation problem Corregidor has. PanOceania and Yu Jing have lost more during the first offensive and it affected them little if at all, O-12 loss of Evening Star is if I remember correctly a loss equivalent to loosing one of the Motherships and O-12 was not seriously affected by the destruction.
And the idea of the Observance wanting to reverse engineer a Sepsitor not for a cure, but to use it… it’s better to include all the fluff about the different factions, rather than cherry-picking. Everybody is grey.
The CB store is liquidating its stock of Crimson Stone at -50%. https://store.corvusbelli.com/en/deals Operation: Crimson Stone 62.47e Beyond Crimson Stone 26.47e
I am aware of those 2 and a half lines..., however, again, I refer to my argument before regarding the impossibility of separating the money from the "tax pool". The only conclussion that can be taken from that paragraph, is that Nomands refuse that the money they give to O12 goes to Bureau Toth, and that the more a nation donates to Toth, the more access they get to Aleph's runtime and the SSS. So, Nomads give money to O12, that O12 spends on whatevet it wants, and get 0 Aleph time, and 0 say in the SSS activities. And, again, zero control over the destination of said money, frankly, but I doubt Aleph needs to engage in any creative accounting to scrounge funds (Aleph is frigging Maya, I think the writers did not realize that the only money Aleph does not control is in Tunguska, and the pittance -by comparison- in the other two ships...). I can go to my closest politician and demand that, since I have private health insurance, I don't want my taxes to go to public health, to which I will get polite nods, and no actual action... this is the same, political posturing without real impact. The only thing I read here is that there is no intention from the writer to pursue the issue. Embassies that refuse to behave need their nations to have some sort of reciprocal threat against where they are, lest they get blocked completely until they decide to vacate (usually after they run out of water), look no further than France's embassy in Niger last month. Fundational chart. A lot of things "happened outscreen" (the phantom conflict between Aleph and Bakunin, for example) and are merely mentioned. However, O12 decided, after creating Aleph (and getting proof that it could "fork" itself into lesser "Aspects", like the Deva functionaries, all the greek's troops, etc...), to enforce a single AI policy due to the risk of creating new AIs that could conflict with each other, or even be against humanity (the risk was not worth it, since Aleph was infinitely capable). This gets reinforced to us as readers when we read the history of the Evolved Intelligence (EI), leader of the Combined Army, and the civil war it had to wage with another EI called Nemesis (it was its second attempt at creating an artificial consciousness, the first one Ascended directly and was so different to the EI, it was mostly a useless project; the second one was more or less a copy of the EI itself... unable to Ascend, and decided to be the original, so civil war ensued. Who won is not really stated, since whatever part remained would be the only EI anyways). Strictly speaking, it could be said that the few AIs the Nomads shelter are not worth the hassle to take them out, but: Aleph's sourcebook, pg 14: It mentions that after this, the Phantom Conflict started, and that Aleph used PanO and YJ assets against the Nomad Nation in "a war which has only recently been fought to an impasse. O-12 has recognised the Nomad Nation as a power in the Sphere. This has stayed the hand of the other powers from destroying them, but ALEPH still chips away at the edges, moving invisible pieces around the board, seeking to push the other powers into a conflict with the Nomads to terminate them and the anarchistic ideologies they espouse." So, I understand from that paragraph that the Phantom Conflict was stopped when the Nomads somehow got into O12, and instead of behaving... they keep spitting the laws of the organization that protects them from destruction. Frankly, I'm the first one considering the level of absoluteness from Aleph's intentions to destroy the nomads is not compatible with their continous survival as a single group, since while Tunguska is too useful for all the players to keep money "hidden" from Aleph, the only reason to keep Bakunin in one piece (besides being "the soul" of the Nomad Nation) were the Black Labs of Praxis... yet Tunguska has its own ones... It's the usual seeding of a metaplot that never moves (I'm not asking for it's evolution, just to stop introducing plots that never move!)
So…. Zellenkriegers available to fireteams with MSV1 and 2. Brawlers in Dashat and StarCo, Riot Grrls in Bakkunin, and Druze in DBS. Yeah…great idea. Edit per @psychoticstorm . Only FTO options without smoke available to FT.
You must reread the fireteam composition and the profiles, the Zellenkrieger FTO does not have smoke grenades.
I was reading Koni's post. It doesn't say FTO. So I'm glad to see that. I've now looked in Army. I'm also now seeing they are no longer Impetuous! Irregular only. Kinda sucks because I wanted the extra order more than taking cover. Extreme ZK does not have Metachemistry. Once again showing that previews are never to be trusted.
