Like expected, Reinforcements is just a bunch of extra rules so CB can sell you more models. Personally not a fan at the moment, because knowing how CB does testing ( extremely poorly ) this rule has potential to break certain scenarios. And that would then add extra work for CB to make scenarios work for both vanilla play and reinforcements play. Which is again something CB does not care about historically, and this could be an issue because Reinforcements is here to stay until at least N5, you don't dedicate this many resources for just a seasonal thing. They could've just done a balance pass and made things generally cheaper or increased standard game size to 350pts, that would be a simpler way for them to force sales with very little effort compared to this. What I am personally curious is am I forced to use Reinforcements if they are a tournament extra ? If I choose not to use them do I play with 250pts or can I play with 350pts on the table without using Reinforcements?
The first turn (and maybe the second one, too) has 50 points less than a regular 300 point game. So lists have to move something in the reinforcements. Cheaper lists may still work with 250 points and may get a TAG (or other very expensive unit) in reinforcements, using as few troopers in reinforcements as possible. So you can get a even bigger asymmetrical advantage during first turn. Elite lists may struggle if they have to cut those 50 points in the beginning. Also, with the right skill (+2 to reinforcements), you can have even more bodies on the table than before.
I think waiting to get all information before making a definite judgement is a sound choice, I am not sure I would say cheap armies are impacted in any negative way by the reinforcements extra.
Possibly the most hilarious take since someone said "Limiting the game to 15 models is forcing people to buy more models" Unless someone only had 15 miniatures, and wants to use a trooper with Commlink +1/2, why would anyone need to buy new miniatures with CB's proxy rules?
Agreed about the 15-troop limit. It’s interesting but going to be difficult for some armies and easy for others. Depending on the price of the troops that have the rule for instance. For example, the Jujak will have the rule. They are expensive HI in their own group they will have very few orders in which to do anything. Even a fireteam will have trouble. But if you make that team bigger than 5, you’ve now hurt the other team. It’s less reinforcement than it’s “hurry up and get your lazy ass up here with the rest of us”. I still look forward to it but right now I’m not enthusiastic for it. How so? I only see an advantage. They can fill out that second team a lot easier than if you have expensive ones. They will at least be able to do something with the orders they have. YJ can’t even put in 4 of the most basic Jujak into it. Four of the cheapest (26pts.) comes to 104pts. So, it needs to be three (78pts). That’s only three orders for that combat group to do anything! Also, are the points left over lost? I can only spend a max of 250 on one group and max of 100. Unless they have another troop that costs 22pts of course so that will give them four orders. Again, not much to do anything. However, a cheap troop can easily make that a 5-6 order team. Making it a lot easier to do something with them. Also, when playing game with the rule, I’ll know they are coming and try to make it they have to use up those few orders they have with small stupid things like mines or killing cheap troops like Liberto.
It's very possible and hopefully thought of in dev for this that profiles will get a discount for being reinforcements and coming on the board later. Hopefully that happens and would make taking HI in the group more lucrative.
I hope that's the case because it's already going to be bad putting down HI where the repeaters usually are already. Making it so they can't do anything is horrible. I tried making a list with 250 in one group and 100 in the other with make of 15 and it sucks.
Guys.... calm. First: It´s an optional ruleset. No one holds a gun to your head to play it. You don´t want to? Don´t do it. Second: We have a little piece of the rules now. Nothing complete, nothing that is worth to be judged and taken like it´s the final word. It is so funny how some people can be so pissed about smth that is not even completly anounced already... Time will show if you are right, i think costumers will decide with their wallet. But unfortunatly (for you) I already know a bunch of people that are pretty excited to use a new mod to their favourite game. I for myself see it, to this moment, like the W40k´s "Planetary Incasionr" or "City in flames" rules expansion: Some fun mode to play with some fancy extras, but never smth that realy hits torunament level. Maybe Reinforcement will be part of some torurnaments, but it don´t think it will replace the "original". Sooo.. i don´t realy bother. And maybe the players like the mod so much it will be played on a regular bases. Time will tell. This sounds to me like (as already mentioned) a nice option to deal with Alpha Strikes. A handful of units in the right position can wreak havoc to overextending Heavy hitters or even turn vs. the enemy backline themselves. Looking forward how this will turn out. Interesting point; Does this mean you can field 16+ units or that you are allowed to sacriface slots in your main-group for extra space in the reinforcements. This, i think, will be one of the most interesting things in this ruleset. I think with the optional units an Armies reinforcements-quality stands and falls. I realy hope, the found a good way to don´t make it too strong on one end or unsignificant on the other. I think there is nothing more to do than to wait and see what CB brings us to play with
Thank you for this. I mean, it's the forums, so I had to expect people being negative about it on principal, but it's still depressing every single time how people find reasons to bash something before they even know what it is. I mean, we don't even know what the new profiles will be. I'm just happy I'll be getting a lot of new toys to play with for every faction I play. So far, I agree with the summary someone on Facebook made: "It does 3 things — one, it reduces the alpha strike potential (since you won't have 300 points on the table/ all 15 models from the get go) Second - it provides a recovery of sorts to a player that got alpha striked, since you can recover what you lost in Turn 1. Third it promotes leaving stuff out to interact with your opponent (die meaningful deaths), since you can replace them anyway." And apart from that, I'd always rather be excited and have fun with (an optional mod for) the game I love than make myself miserable by being pessimistic about something I haven't even tried yet.
Reinforcement group isn't capped at 5 members, it follows the same rules as any normal Combat Group. Commlink+1 would let you push it to 10/6, 9/7, or 8/8. Likewise we don't know if the 250/100 split is a concrete thing yet either, these are previews to give us a high level idea of how the rules work, not complete rules.
Carlos has confirmed the +1 and +2 will let you pass beyond the 15 trooper limit so it will be more like 10/6 and 10/7
All of that is true. But many know that and are commenting on what we know at this time. I know that there's more to it. So I can only comment on what I know right this moment. And what we know at this moment doesn't look good to me. I'm hoping that with new information I will like it. Just the knowing It’s a 15-man cap, then 250pts max for one-2 groups and one at a max of 100 already sucks. The 250 is going to have almost all of your expensive troops and the 100 group is going to have the cheapest you can do so that they have orders to work with when the get there. Even if you can beyond the limit, it's not going to help much and some guys will have it and some wont.
One thing our local meta has discussed is how this also provides an incentive to go hunting on your own, since if you lose that 50 points trying something bold, you give yourself the opportunity to bring on those reinforcement troops.
The only way this Reinforcement thing will be a success is if the Tohaa Reinforcements come in the form of a Sakiel box.
Again, they used the 250/100 point split in the example but we don't yet know the maximum/minimum amount for the reinforcements group.
We know the base maximums is 100pts 2 Swc and 5 troopers it was in the video. We know this unless Carlos gave us wrong info. But the slides + discussion were pretty clear on the maximums outside of special commlink skills.
