This discussion has been done to death on the forums and people have finally figured out that the people who are getting their hackers shot at on a regular basis are generally not very good at leveraging hackers. N4 is about pushing repeaters around while hackers stay way the fuck outta the way, in this case the Zond is force projecting for Jazz. Seriously if you're getting Jazz shot at without your army getting tabled first either you have either fucked up or your opponent has something that can start in your DZ.
@psychoticstorm …T-minus 20 seconds until this thread devolves into the usual mess. It’s a little sad that I’m only half joking…. On the other hand my Yu Jing are very excited to see what they’ll actually get in their Daebak. Artwork looks great. Let’s see the minis!
I also want to make a point that there's no guarantee that unit is HI. Compare it to a Tiger Soldier which is MI. Or the Dao Ying which was probably at some point during its development cycle a HI of some description before being changed to MI
Only if you can get them in place, which admittedly the Reinforcements may help with depending on how it's handled. Blind corners really screw over Heavy Infantry trying to breach a terrain section guarded by a Hacker unless you can clear the way with Hacking of your own, which sadly means that the HI budget usually gets cut in favour of something that can bypass those defenses in cutthroat list construction. A Domaru or Teuton equivalent with discount guns would at least mean some HI could sneak into a list that can counter Hackers, which would be nice for the many Yu Jing power armour enthusiasts.
I know the irony of you posting that after your "lol just shoot the hacker" post is lost on you, but it's a work of art nonetheless
I never said: and more importantly when I am in disagreement I do not hold such a disparaging stance towards any fellow debater. Now if you want to distil a complex and complicated discussion about hackers their predominance, or not, on the games and various tactics on dealing with them and their practical and theoretical application to just "lol shoot the hacker", it is your option and opinion to do so, but, this is not what I or anyone else in that discussion supporting that shooting a hacker is a valid tactic in dealing with a hacking network said.
In order to use gun to deal with hackers, you need competent and quick non-hackable gun-fighters. The reason someone brings hackers is to make it awkward for hackable units to move around. This is the primary reason to bring hackers, after all. While you can go into the whole logical process in this, I just don't have the patience for it, particularly not in a discourse environment where people primarily tries to win arguments by finding nits to pick. However, it all boils down to that you need a diverse list with overlapping tools and capabilities, where each overlap offers different benefits and weaknesses. Tangentially, this is why vanilla is dominant. Essentially, being hackable is a unit weakness until you bring enough hackable that it becomes a list weakness. That's on you. If your faction is built around the notion that for each problem the solution is a hackable unit, then balancing the faction becomes harder because you are forcing your players into that weakness. So yes, this specific faction absolutely do not need more variations on the Zuyong. Unless they start giving those variations compensating capabilities to solve this similar to how NATO solves anti-air problems. Incidentally, this is one of the reasons why the Yu Jing Beasthunter profile is so incredibly popular. Fast mobile unhackable murderer. It is the toolbox that a hackable faction needs to solver hacker problems. Also, for reasons that should be obvious even to casual observers, IA is fucked.
That was a good summary but I hope not, I have assembled and primed the big boys and want to see some table time with them.
No worrys. They have Tinbots -6, own Hackers, linkable living repeaters (or mechanical, but more bulky ones) and guns that can come form unsuspected angels, but mostly not all at once ;-) And a lot of action on the table is situational. In my last game I could go over the flank, because the TAG was down und get some nice angles.
...or smoke/Eclipse/White Noise; airborne deployment; or a couple motorcycles to yolo, preferably which can deal with a koala on the way in. IA has less, but Lei Gong can do most of this given a 6" cautious move. So things everyone has in other words (though in different amounts true). It's not that hard to kill a hacker if you throw resources at it. The difficult part is killing them and still having orders left to do something else in the same turn. If I can kill Jazz and blunt a major attack piece on Turn 1 without losing more than a troop or two, I'm pretty happy. Seems to be how people approach Jazz when I use her too.
The way you talk about your local gaming environment you should be fine. Don't read that disparagingly, btw, it's just that any environment where players are using hacking as a primary tool will leave any HI other than Daofei and Hac Tao in difficulties, and IA has problems running Hac Tao effectively at 300 pts. The key part is "mostly not all at once". If you try to mitigate the hacking part of the game, you'll be running at a guns-and-bodies deficit compared to your opponent, at least at 300 pts. I love IA conceptually, it is by far my most completely painted force, but I've gotten quite tired of how difficult it's been to get close to objectives with them in N4.
If your opponents are letting you AD into their DZ or smoke your way into their DZ and to kill something that should be in one of the most protected positions on the table, they are bad at the game and are failing to layer defenses correctly. If I want to kill Jazz I will literally need to kill about 8 models to get to her. At that point, killing Jazz doesn't matter because I've murdered so much shit the game is already over. Which goes back to the "LOL just shoot the hacker" argument is so utterly stupid. Yes, you can shoot the hacker but shooting the hacker after tabling your opponent isn't a particularly good argument.
Spoiler: In order to use gun to deal with hackers, you need competent and quick non-hackable gun-fighters. Post of the month right here!
*views above posts* Yup. Called it. If only I could be as accurate with lottery numbers. I give it another 20 seconds before the toxicity really ramps up here. I was interested in this thread because it was talking about a reinforcement set we knew was coming. I’m excited to see what Yu Jing could be getting. I don’t want to read another thread about whether or not it’s easy to kill Jazz. We’ve all been on that thread. It gets boring. Let’s get back to speculation about what the new minis will look like and what the new profiles could be.
See the On Table Top video: They flip through the Daebak section of the book with some juicy content. It talks about the DOKKAEBI unit being remote dolls piloted by gamers and the Sulsa being CC trained infiltrators.
Dokkaebi are recruited from korean gamers, cribbing off Overwatch there lmao. More interesting is it appears Jeong and Bixie are part of the reinforcements group which is extremely high value for us. Particularly if Jeong can get into decent fireteams or the like where it's possible to move him into positions he's needed without it being a massive order burden this will be a huge help to fix up ISS, they badly need a solid combat engineer so their Dakini fireteams aren't fucking awful. That said I wonder what this means for units that are native to a sectorial such as Jeong or Jujaks, are they potentially getting yeeted out of WB and IA?
To be fair, if the lottery were also a coin-flip, it would be a lot easier to predict! I've been trying to tie the old Hacking topic into the potential of Reinforcements as a rule; any potential second-turn deployment would make it easier to flank Hacking defenses and get that key shot. An LSG Heavy Infantryman like the one displayed is also valuable against that sort of list, as it's cheaper and easier to fit in around dedicated anti-Hacker gear and trades against screening Warbands just as well as more elite platforms. The idea of getting a replacement CC Infiltrator is also promising in terms of potential solutions for Yu Jing's Hacking matchup, especially if it's a true assassin like the Oniwaban (and not at all like a Locust).
