ZoC ARO while in CC/Engaged State

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by Jericho, Jun 9, 2023.

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  1. Jericho

    Jericho Well-Known Member

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    We had yesterday the following situation:

    Nourkias was in CC with 3 Antipodes.
    A camo marker in 8" to Nourkias activates.

    Can Nourkias declare a dodge and leave the combat/cancel enganged with the antipodes?

    It seems a bit strange, that you can react to things that happen nearby while fighting three werewolves.

    But we found no rule against declaring ZoC AROs while in CC.
     
  2. Iskandar

    Iskandar Well-Known Member

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    Yes he can declare dodge presuming he has a valid ARO
     
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  3. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Stealth is involved here...

    Does the Camo Marker have Stealth?
    If the answer is YES and he doesn't break Stealth (declaring an attack, for example), then Nourkias is not granted the chance to declare any ARO.

    If the answer is NO, or the Camo Marker DO breack Stealth, then Nourkias can declare Dodge to leave the engagement.
     
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  4. Jericho

    Jericho Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thank you for your answers.

    I just find it a bit strange that soemone has the awareness of a guy doin something several meters away and react to this, while fighting three werewolves.

    But it is as it is.
    So just don't activate any trooper in ZoC if you want to keep someone enganged in CC.
     
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  5. LeGweg

    LeGweg Lucky dice roller

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    Nourkias can gain a valid ARO due to ennemy move in his ZoC (if camo has no stealth)

    I'll add that he has no LoF on this ARO due to engaged state, so the dodge has a -3 mod applied.

    Edit: As a fellow antipodes user, I like to "block" ennemy against walls to avoid any dodge; not every trooper has enough dodge distance to replace outside CC in these conditions ;)
     
  6. Jericho

    Jericho Well-Known Member

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    Camo had stealth but would have broken it since the Spetznaz wanted to kill some guys with his HMG.

    sadly the fight was in open field but I managed to engage Nourkia from three differend angles. So he was stuck in the middle of triangle of Antipodes.

    Whe I have another question ... would Nourkias be able to leave the engange state since he was surrounded from three sites?
     
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  7. LeGweg

    LeGweg Lucky dice roller

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    I think he should met following conditions to properly achieve this kind of dodge:
    1) have enough dodge distance to end movement outside antipodes triangle
    2) do it without reducing its base size to more than half its value.
     
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  8. Jericho

    Jericho Well-Known Member

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    Since he got 4" dodge he should be able to get far enough.
    And sadly with three 40mm bases it should be impossible to keep the distances between the bases close enough to make the gap less than half of an SW2 model. :confused:
     
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  9. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    This is your flying snowman? :)
    There are still dice. :)
     
  10. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Not activating troops in ZoC to deny "free" attempts to the enemy to help themselves out of a tough situation is a judgement call one needs to make.

    Sometimes stopping the attack is more impactful than continuing.
     
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  11. water_around_fire

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    I'm pretty sure you can't squeeze between enemy models. The language for moving over surfaces smaller than the base talk about the surface size, not the size of the gap available to move through due to enemy models. I'm basing this interpretation on the FAQ entry in https://infinitythewiki.com/Move
     
  12. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    This. I cannot squeeze through enemy Units because u are not allowed to enter Siluette contact whilst moving unless to enter engaged state.

    and since succesful dodges follow the general Movement Rules it can become tricky leaving engaged state with multiple enemies:

    I think with 3 Antipodes placing themselves in a triangle (of sadness) around a S1 or S2 unit there is no gap big enough to leave engaged state.

    edit.: just measured it with a simple sketch. 3 Antipodes can trap a S2 Modell with quit easily
     
    #12 anubis, Jun 21, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2023
  13. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Super-Jumping Jack Flash it's a gas...
     
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  14. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    right, forgot about nourkias having Super jump.
    Still not sure if he can jump over S4 units with 4 inches range... That´s something for the people using Dice-calculaters to calculate =)

    but every other S2 units without SJ antipodes are able to catch
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Can't jump as an ARO in this situation, or even if it's the active turn. Jump isn't a legal option when engaged.

    I will also remind people that the Engaged state shows that it is intentional for models to potentially be trapped and unable to extricate themselves from the engaged state even when they pass a Dodge roll.

    "A Trooper may also cancel the Engaged State if they pass a Dodge Roll, either Normal or Face to Face. In this case, the Trooper must leave Silhouette contact, moving up to 2 inches to separate themselves from the enemy.
    If they cannot move to a valid position that is outside Silhouette contact, the Trooper will remain in Engaged State without moving."
     
    #15 Triumph, Jun 21, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2023
  16. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    You are totally correct. When re-reading carefully, a dodge allowes you to MOVE up to 2 inches, not to declare a short movement skill. Pretty clear. Thank you for pointing that out.
     
  17. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Correct, if you get trapped, you are trapped, well played by your opponent.
     
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