Why don't my pan-O opponents use hacking?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by SaladSnek, Mar 31, 2023.

  1. smokingmonkee

    smokingmonkee Active Member

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    Not gonna lie, but if you're that miserable why are you even wasting your breath or playing? I walked away from GW a long time ago and never looked back. Maybe you should do the same to CB.
     
  2. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    Perhaps. Perhaps not. I’m not sure you can speak for his abilities in game when you aren’t him. Unless you’ve played him a lot and beaten him because he’s using things that don’t have the tools for the job.

    You have a habit of putting words in people’s mouths to fit your narrative. Unlike others here whose main language may not be English, mine is and I never imply anything. I say what I mean and I stand by it. Once again you seem to be looking for a fight. Once again you will not find it with me. Look elsewhere for outlets for the anger you clearly have.
     
  3. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    just deleted my post, following @Gwynbleidd ´s example.
     
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  4. khepri

    khepri Well-Known Member

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    Nope, remember that firewall is a -3 to incoming damage, making trinity damage 10, and Jazz's trinity 11.

    You can calculate it the other way around by adding to armor instead, but regardless, the numbers are the same either way.
     
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  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Please double check the base damage of Trinity
     
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  6. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Protector of the Search for Knowledge

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    Thank you. Recalculating.

    Active - 0.33 wounds / order:
    Wins F2F: 67.4%
    Causes 1+ wounds: 27.9%
    Causes 2+ wounds: 4.7%
    Failure:
    Ties F2F: 6.1%
    No wounds: 59.1%
    Reactive - 0.14 wounds / order:
    Wins F2F: 26.6%
    Causes 1+ wounds: 13.0%
    Causes 2+ wounds: 0.9%
    Wounds / order: 0.14

    EDIT: To show the work and make sure I am doing it correctly for Knight of Santiago Hacking in the active through an enemy repeater:

    Knight of Santiago Active Trinity: 3 dice on 13s (13 WIP+ 3 (Trinity) -3 (Firewall)
    versus
    Jazz Reactive Trinity: 1 dice on 14s (14 WIP + 3 (Trinity) - 3 (Firewall).

    Trinity is Damage 14, so through a Firewall it becomes Damage 11. Jazz adds +1 Damage.
    Knight is BTS 3 and Jazz is BTS 6.
     
    #186 Brokenwolf, Apr 27, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2023
  7. Rabble

    Rabble Well-Known Member

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    For the sake of the argument, the same scenario but with Jazz using Oblivion would have the following stats per activation:

    KoS causes one wound or more to Jazz 33.20% of the time
    Jazz makes the KoS enter Isolate state 9.62% of the time
    57.18% of the time neither succeds.

    Of course my stats may be wrong since I am late in the night, but this is accounting that the KoS Active Trinity is the same as show by @Brokenwolf , 3 dice on 13s (trinity) vs 1 dice on 11s (oblivion), and that Trinity is damage 11 after the firewall vs Jazz BTS 6 and that Oblivion is Damage 13 vs KoS BTS 2 due to the AP attribute of Oblivion.

    So yeah, a single succesful oblivion may take KoS out of the hacking race... counting no engineers are nearby to patch him up in the rest of his active turn. And that is a perilous route to follow as the KoS is likely to have a little more than 3 times the chance of knocking unconcious Jazz rather than Jazz isolating him.
     
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  8. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Protector of the Search for Knowledge

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    Like I said in the original post, this is brute forcing it. It is like in when Haqqislam you use a Shakush or Maggie against a difficult ARO. It may not always be the best choice, but it is respectfully possible if you are willing to spend the orders. And looking at Nomad meta lists, Jazz seems like a linchpin: if she goes down, your life is a lot easier.
     
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  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Jazz is most commonly found with a -6 firewall. Your stats don't reflect reality.
     
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  10. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Of oh well, happens, Ill inform the local group I made a mistake, thanks for pointing it out.

    It means what the above poster said, do not try to hack with the tools you do not have, but hack with the tools you have, I do not understand how you find that disrespectful in any way, I think what @AntipodeanBolt said is valid as a concept.
     
  11. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Exactly. Use what you have, play to your own strengths, rather than bemoan what you don’t have or covet what a different army has.
     
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  12. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    It is an interesting concept it has been discussed before in this thread, passive repeater network expansion and force through numbers domination, all PanOceania attacking remotes are repeaters so the network expands with their advance and theoretically PanO can spare some SWC to bring more hackers, Ill try it.
     
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  13. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
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    That certainly is one factor, but getting into the hacking net means dodging koala and likely exposing yourself to more than just Jazz which is far more pressing in the situation. The MB hacker can bring the -6 tinbot which cranks up the difficulty of entering the hacking zone significantly.
     
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  14. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Now we are in the PanO side of things so I need to refocus, White Banner had Super jump options, especially Bixie who was superb in neutralizing morans and the hacking network in general, or Guijia who is a really oppressively Super Jump platform.

    In PanO I guess there would be other options, Shona maybe and Vargars?

    Edit, the point is I do not know for sure, while I played a lot of PanO the focus I had with Yu Jing ahs left me with Yu Jing solutions to problems I see, Probably PanO will have other solutions than "apply Super Jump to issue".
     
    #194 psychoticstorm, Apr 28, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  15. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Shona, Vargar, Bøyg, ORC TinBot, Karhu, EVO adding Fairy Dust.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Because the game deserves critique.
     
  17. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    As I edited above, Super Jump is a Yu Jing Solution I think, PanO (sectorials) will probably have other solutions to deinfest rooftops from Morans and their Koalas.
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You could learn some respect and not dissemble when people call you out on your shitty attitude. You, @A Mão Esquerda , and @psychoticstorm have the attitude that people have no right to critique the design of the game and should just shut up. That's not an attitude that people with self-respect are going to take well. And yes, I'm angry, on some level, because you said I don't have the right to have an opinion.
     
  19. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    It is nice to hear from you the game deserves something.
     
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  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The point several people are making in this thread is that the tools PanO has are insufficient to make investing in hacking a worthwhile payoff, in most cases. So when you say "hack like PanO" you're really saying "hack poorly."
     
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