Does getting hit by Smoke ammo template trigger an ARO?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by Tanan, Mar 19, 2023.

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  1. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    That's also not an ARO against an ARO.

    While the original Dodge might have triggered the mine, trooper B's ARO is caused by the mine, not Trooper A.

    It also only works if the mine is triggered after the first short skill, as the Dodge would be declared after the initial ARO check
     
  2. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    My comment was all about getting @Papa Bey to admit that you don't need active trooper to trigger AROs. Understandably, I was little worried where the discussion was going. Non-activated non-trooper deployables can also trigger new AROs. This is now clear for everyone involved.

    And just to be clear I also think that it would be stupid if reactive troopers could trigger Dodge AROs using smoke grenades. I'm merely pointing out that rules are once again poorly written and FAQ would be nice. Also I'm 100% sure if CB wrote in a FAQ that getting hit by smoke ammo templates doesn't trigger AROs, all the people in this thread would be fine with it because you know that you can easily avoid providing those AROs by placing the template in a way that it doesn't touch the reactive trooper. The dodge ARO only serves to bash newbies.
     
    #22 Tanan, Mar 20, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
  3. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I would like a recap of what the issue is.
     
  4. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Nothing big really @psychoticstorm . There was some miscommunication at the beginning but it has been resolved.

    The problem, if you can call it that is that does smoke ammo count as a template attack. Smoke ammo is bit weird, because it can target friendlies but doesn't cause guts checks on anyone. You can also easily archieve your smoking goals and avoid giving enemy AROs by wiggling the template so that it doesn't touch the enemy troopers. If I remember correcly, in N3 smoke ammo didn't trigger AROs but I could be wrong here.
     
    #24 Tanan, Mar 21, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
  5. Master Efialtes

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    Yes, he can declare DOdge Aro:

    https://infinitythewiki.com/Template_Weapons_and_Equipment

    upload_2023-4-3_0-36-23.png
     
    chromedog likes this.
  6. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Getting hit by a Smoke template is mechanically not different than getting hit by a regular or E/M template in terms of getting AROs.

    Smoke Grenades and Grenade Launchers are template weapons first, and then add stuff like non lethal and Smoke Ammunition on top. The first part of that is all that ARO generation cares about.

    About the other part - you never get AROs in your own turn. Which is one of the main reason why Hidden Deployment Templates are so nasty. Shooter A moves up peeking around a corner next to a friendly Trooper B.
    Noctifier ARO reveals catchen them both under the template. Trooper B around the corner will have no opportunity whatsoever to FTF the template.

    Only the Reactive Player gets AROs.

    A Reactive Trooper is allowed to declare ARO in the following situations:

    Also "Troopers cannot react to AROs, since only the Active Player's Orders give AROs and only the Reactive Player can declare AROs."
    So no triggering AROs off Smoke AROs hitting friendly troops either.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  7. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    In the N3 rulebook, the Speculative Fire page had as its example a smoke grenade attack granting ARO's for coverage by the template:

    In his Active Turn, the vicious Dāturazi Jedak wants to crush Fusilier Angus, who is standing behind a wall, in Close Combat. In order to keep Angus from shooting him down when he turns the corner, Jedak wants to throw a Smoke Grenade over the wall. Since Angus is outside the Dāturazi’s LoF and Smoke Grenades have the Speculative Fire Trait, Jedak is able to declare Speculative Fire.

    Jedak spends an Entire Order and declares Speculative Fire. Then, he places the Circular Template so that it affects Angus. Smoke Grenades are an Impact Template weapon, so Angus can declare a Dodge ARO (with his PH-3) even though the Speculative Fire came from outside his LoF. As Jedak uses a weapon loaded with Smoke Special Ammunition, and Angus reacts declaring Dodge, the Order is resolved with two separate Normal Rolls. Jedak makes a Normal PH-3 Roll (+3 for the Smoke Grenade’s Range MOD and -6 for the Speculative Fire MOD= -3) and Angus a Normal PH-3 Roll.​
     
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