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New Nomad player looking for constructive crits

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Seph, Feb 28, 2023.

  1. Seph

    Seph New Member

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    Hi all!

    I've played Infinity a total of 5 times, 2 150 point games and 3 300 point tournament games.

    I played in the tournament on Sunday so this is a bit of a post mortem on that. Most of the players in the tournament were experienced players so as expected I did pretty badly (I won one game against an experienced player (who was being very helpful and giving me a lot of advice) as a result of a series of hail mary last round moves which just enough of worked).

    I ran vanilla Nomad lists in the tournament and would welcome any contructive criticism of my lists for how I can make them more competitive. I have some ideas for improvements too which I'll note with each list. I avoided Tunguska (my favoured sectorial) as I wanted to try just learning to use a bunch of the units and didn't want to complicate it with fireteams, but I definitely want to sometimes start using Tunguska in future for fireteams.

    First list:

    upload_2023-2-28_8-38-59.png
    https://infinitytheuniverse.com/army/list/gfUGbm9tYWRzIiBUb3VybmFtZW50IDI2MDIgMiBOb21hZHMgK0NvcnNhaXKBLAIBCgCERwEEAACBsgEFAACBmgEBAACBkgEDAACEQwGPnwAAhEsBAQAAgZwBAQAAgZcBBgAAgbIBAQAAgZIBBwACBQCBqgEBAACBnAEBAACBsgEBAACERAECAACBmQEBAA==

    This did VERY VERY badly against a Scots Guard Ariadna list (my opponent said it wasn't even a very competitive list compared to what he might field if he was going 100%). The main reasons were a complete lack of hackable targets for my four hackers, and my opponent dominated most of the open ground with a strong selection of ARO snipers so I couldn't set up good fire lines to intercept his melee rushes earlier.

    My thoughts on this list:
    • Four hackers is way too many hackers. Redundancy isn't that good. Two or three seems like a better balance and risks less loss of potential against unhackable opponents. I think it was a waste of the Zondnaut too.
    • I didn't have enough strong long-ranged and ARO pieces (the Spektr sniper was ok, but I didn't deploy it with a good enough field of fire). I think I was a bit too cautious about revealing my Spektrs, mimetism -6 and cover is pretty good! One mistake I made is that I didn't realise you couldn't ARO indirect missile attacks on a spotlit target, so I had mistakenly thought of my Vertigo as an ARO piece.
    • There's not much point having tons of units that can drop mines if you deploy them where they can't use them.
    • It's fun having lots of camo and hidden deployment, but it's a whole extra skill I need to work on to make good use of it.
    Second list:

    upload_2023-2-28_8-38-20.png
    https://infinitytheuniverse.com/arm...BBQACBQCBnAEBAACBnAEBAACBlwEFAAAyAQEAAIGyAQkA

    This list did ok - I ran it in two of the three tournament games (against PanO and Ariadna - both sectorials but I can't remember which). My hackers had a lot of impact in the PanO game keeping HI locked down and it was fun to put those to use fully, this was the game I won with hail marys.
    Against the Ariadna opponent I might have won if I had kept my eye on the objective more or gotten a little luckier, but I was happy putting the Szally and UWUberfallkommandos to work (Szally went on a massive rampage over the last two rounds, and the UWUberfallkommandos took out the Blackjack in round 1, my opponent didn't have a lot of troops left on the table at the end but had most of the objectives). Hackers also did a lot of good work here keeping the Traktor Muls and Blackjack locked down.

    My thoughts on this list:
    • I think having both the Zondnaut and the UWUberfallkommandos is redundant, they're both there to do smoke and close combat rushes and it's better to just pick one. If I were doing Tunguska I'd only have the option of the Zondnaut, in vanilla I'd keep the UWUberfallkommandos.
    • I just had the one ARO piece (the Tsyklon Sputnik) and that wasn't enough on it's own and was outranged by an enemy sniper in the Ariadna game. I think I need at least one ARO piece with a really good range.
    • I need an engineer to keep my Tsyklon and Szally moving.
    • Isolate+Immobilise can really ruin your opponent's plan. But isolate first.

    My general thoughts:
    • I keep forgetting that my opponent will always have one trooper to deploy after I deploy and once deployed a unit where their last trooper could easily be positioned for ARO.
    • In another game I deployed my Zondnaut right in the open. Need to get my head around dealing with AROs both in deployment and movement.
    • I need to work on techniques for "slicing the pie". E.g. deploying good long range pieces near bits of total cover that they can edge out of so they only have to engage one ARO sniper at a time.
    • I need to get my head around ZOC vs LOS especially with my hackers (I kept forgetting they need to be very close to do anything). Generally I need to include more ways to enable my hackers (pitchers, deployable repeaters, fastpandas, etc).
    • I think I tried to do too much with each list.
    • Fireteams are very powerful! I faced a lot of them and the AROs are nasty! I definitely want to try them next time I play.
    • I need to put at least one strong active piece into my second combat group, having all my strongest active pieces in one group limits how much freedom I have to use them. Or maybe I should focus on putting secondary/ARO pieces in my second combat group and make the first group pure attack orientated so I don't have to spend those orders on support actions.
    • I need to split troops between combat groups in a way that is more intuitive to me so I don't have to keep checking mid-game which troop is where.
    • Specific units that might be worth getting: Heckler Jammer, Cheerkillers (MSV), engineer (either Clockmaker on Monstrucker), Interventors with Fastpandas, Moderators (cheap cheerleaders+pitchers), Grenzer (MSV/multi sniper). I might be missing something but I'm struggling to find good long-range ARO pieces in Nomads that aren't really expensive because they have a bunch of other stuff. I guess there's nothing wrong with a few Securitate or Moderators with multi snipers.
    General stuff I'd like to try out next:
    • Fireteams!
    • I have in mind a Haris with Hollow Man, Kriza Borac (for B6), and either a 2nd Hollow Man (with missile launcher for ARO) or a Stempler zond (cheaper and has repeater for hacker coverage to protect the fireteam)
    • For core I have the models for a securitate/interventor team, more for utility/defense/lots of AROs. A cheerkiller team looks pretty handy too (though potentially quite expensive) and can have MSV.
    • A list with even more hidden deployment/camouflage tokens.
     
    #1 Seph, Feb 28, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
    csjarrat and burlesford like this.
  2. burlesford

    burlesford Sheet guy

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    Hey @Seph, first of all, I'm sorry on behalf of the forum community here that you didn't get a reply earlier. Thank you for your detailed writeup!

    It seems to me that you already have a pretty good grip on most of the essentials of the game. It shows in tg3 fact that you beat an experienced player in a tournament setting. So be proud of that!

    As for your own takeaways: They are all good. Keep at it with this mindset and you'll improve rapidly. You learn Infinity by making one mistake after another and learning from them. It's always surprising to me how many slightly similar mistakes I'm still able to make from the ones I learned not to make.

    Concerning your lists: You basically handicapped yourself pretty heavily by playing a vanilla list with (almost) exclusively Tunguska profiles. You paid a lot of points for expensive cheerleaders like Securitate that you could have invested in units that are useful on their own, which is the big advantage of not having to worry about fireteams.

    As for attack pieces: Nomads certainly don't lack premier long-range firepower. Szally is one of them. So is the Gator, the Riot Grrl ML, and the Vostok.

    On the other hand, a piece like the Grenzer MSR is really only worth his points in a link. Otherwise you're paying 35 points for a 1W, B1 ARO piece that will die very quickly. The same goes for the Tsyklon.

    If you want to maximize your efficiency in Tunguska, here are the premier pieces everyone pretty much agrees on:

    1. The Puppetbots. 2W for 12-16 points that are fast and deadly while not loosing orders when they go down. They're the best thing Tunguska has. Unfortunately, because of the expensiveness of the sectorial, you most often will only be able to bring two.

    2. Interventors. You already know that.

    3. The Heckler with fast panda + Vertigo Zond. For 23 pts, you get a very reliable way to drop a repeater in your enemy's DZ.

    4. The Zondnautica, for the reasons you already mentioned.

    5. Fiddler, Perseus, and the Vostok in a Haris. You get smoke against non MSV, you get White Noise (through the Vostok's repeater and your Interventor) against MSV, Fiddler can repair the Vostok, and Perseus can protect you in CC.

    Those are my two cents. Have fun with Tunguska (they're my first and favorite sectorial) , and don't be scared of links. Start with a single Haris and work your way up from there.

    Cheers!
     
  3. kanhead

    kanhead Well-Known Member

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    First list is very close to a Tunguska list. You could make a few quick changes to get to this:

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    HECKLER Combi Rifle, Jammer ( | FastPanda) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    ZONDNAUT (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 23)
    [​IMG] ZONDMATE Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5)
    GRENZER (Marksmanship) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)
    SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    SECURITATE (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    INTERVENTOR (Lieutenant, Hacker, Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle ( | FastPanda) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 26)
    MARY PROBLEMS (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28)
    SPEKTR (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    SALYUT (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8)
    SPEKTR MULTI Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
    VERTIGO ZOND Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The second list is also Tuguska other than the uberfall. You can adapt it to this:

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1
    SZALAMANDRA Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / CC Weapon. (2 | 72)
    [​IMG] SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    SALYUT (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8)
    MARY PROBLEMS (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28)
    INTERVENTOR (Lieutenant, Hacker, Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle ( | FastPanda) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 26)
    TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / PARA CC Weapon(-6). (1 | 36)
    SECURITATE (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    SECURITATE (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    ZONDNAUT Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] ZONDMATE Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5)
    HECKLER (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Cybermines ( ) / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    HECKLER Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    I'd probably try to get a clockmaker in there somewhere and possibly swap the zond spitfire to the hacker.
     
    burlesford likes this.
  4. SaladSnek

    SaladSnek Well-Known Member

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    First of all LOL how dare you!! XD

    Hacker focused nomads vs any Ariadna is a tough match up. You shouldn't feel too bad about that early loss. I play hacker focused lists a fare amount. Working in a shooter with a visor evens the odds of that match up a bit.

    These are all great take always and shows your doing great at paying attention. I expect you'll 'get good' in no time. Deployment is so important in infinity. So many wargames are won in list building. Lists are important in infinity but the game is really won and lost in deployment.

    If you stick with vanilla: The only thing standing out to me in your first list is .5 swc left and no moran in a hacker list. Not a necessity of you're planning on going into tunguska, but if you stick with vanilla and hacking I would strongly suggest working one in. If you'd like to be different, trying the zero with dep rep and EM mines (looses some utility without Koalas, lower BS and non-specialist/ Gains some ambiguity in marker state, repeater placement becomes optional (you might choose to not place a repeater down in a matchup against an anathematic or another Mary)

    Vanilla faction match ups against sectorials: using coordinated attacks against the dominant ARO piece is important. sometimes just applying T.A.G will get you through. If not, those coordinated orders forcing the choice of dodging against all, or letting 3 units roll unopposed is the best way to deal with the linked snipers and missiles quickly. Sally is THE best spearhead for this in nomads, with the burst 5 letting it shoot 3 times as the spearhead. Against hard targets, an FO or two in the order will throw in some attacks with no save if you think it will take more than 1 order to drop them. If the target doesn't have 6th sense natively or isn't in a link of 4+ units, surprise attack in the coordinated order will give the opponent 2 different target numbers for the dodge so they can't crit-dodge against everything.

    I do play lists with 4 hackers in them with success. In either vanilla or sectorial a coordinated order with 4 hackers or 3 and a repeater is the best way to spot light. burst 1 wip roll face to face is pretty rough, especially against anything with a tin bot. Most of your spot lights should be rolled as AROs. If you have 3 hackers and a meteor zond or another armed repeater you can force a no win scenario where, if they shoot the bot, they take 3 unopposed hacks, or if they reset, they take an unopposed BS attack.

    Its a good instinct to start without worrying about fireteams, as the tricks you learn will still be useful in sectorials. If/when you start playing sectorials, positioning the aggressive active turn fireteams can be a big time and attention sink when your redeploying them with every order. Practicing positioning the active turn fireteam with a harris is easier to start. Tunguska has a lot of fun harrises to pick from.

    For cores, defensive link is easier to start out with. One you don't intend to move around right away. If you like the hacking game, the linked tsyclon is a trixy ARO piece that can throw pitchers way down town or onto objectives as its first reaction. If you do that just remember to not shove all your hackers into that team so the link doesn't break if the tsyclon shoots and the hackers hack. Positioning the specter multi-sniper so it can reveal on the order the opponent expects to shoot at just your linked ARO piece is one of my favorite traps.

    Hope you find this helpful. It was fun to go off about dirty tricks. Happy hunting!
     
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