I know ther sin eaters are good. I didnt said that. I SAID that the multisniper profile is useless and a wrong adition to the box without being able to link or something. And, TR bots are more usefull than Sin eaters. I can attack and defent with the bots, and buff them with the hacker i probably included in the bakunin list and more difficult to kill (2 uncoscious states + shock inm) And you said that moderators+ riot is not that powerfull. I say it's a no brainer fireteam. 2W BS14 MSV1 inmune to surprise. And dodging like hell. Wow, so underpowered.
I operate on the principle of the active turn advantage, anything you put up on ARO is a problem that can be solved by the opponent in some form whether it's via bypassing it, ignoring it, or directly confronting it with a solution shooter. Anything that is offered as an ARO piece should be expected to be countered, that has to be generally possible because otherwise this game doesn't function if the active player can't make moves. If you have good odds with an ARO piece, your opponent is either desperate or is making an unforced error because they get to choose the nature of the engagement as the active player. So with that in mind ARO pieces need to either dual purpose some other function to justify their presence, or be relatively cheap on SWC and Points. Neurocinetic units like Sin Eaters don't fit that bill IMO. I will concede that post fireteam update they are significantly more justifiable at 400 points than they were before. I still think you'd be better served selecting other REMs for defense, but at 400 the extra points/SWC tax isn't going to hurt you nearly as badly.
Maybe, maybe not, seen so many different metas and so many polar opposite views, many different metas collapsing when they clash in an international tournament, I am not sure I would take the stance that there is any "one true meta" out there, there are scarcely few things everybody can agree on and these are usually the ones that get a priority fix.
What @psychoticstorm said. When I moved from the American "alpha as hard as you can then clean up after" meta to a European "rope a dope and focus on objectives" meta, it took me a long time to adjust. French and German folks in particular handed me my hat if I didn't manage to maul them right away. A lot of stuff that I thought was "trash" because it wasn't alpha-friendly turned out to be decent with slow advance or sneaky last-turn stuff.I'm still crap at that type of play but at least now I understand why I lose to it when I do. Guessing you don't play on a lot of tables with long fire lanes. They're decent in that context. Also probably going to get some sort of buff. Your language is hyperbolic here, and pretty silly given that you have no idea what changes or context their profiles may have. BS13 and Mim -3 are better in my book, given that Marksmanship requires an order, repeater cover, and an EVO bot. But I actually play the faction, so clearly I'm not the right person to be opining about things being "useless" on the internet. Shoot her with a Spitfire or Multirifle in good range for it and bad for her. Shoot her with a B5 HMG. Or use Eclipse, White Noise, cautious moves, or terrain to just avoid dueling her. That's what you do with decent ARO units, whatever they are. Grenzer, Bolt, Yaogat, Vostok, Tankhunter, Noctifer, Hsien, whatever. I'm guessing a linked Riot Grrl ML bad-touched your army at some point. I feel the same way about Teutons (which have kicked my butt A LOT). But then I chill out, and can see them objectively as balanced and understand that I have plenty of tools to counter them, if used well.
Yeah I also wonder why the biggest sword in the box is just that - a sword. Not even shock for cosmetic reasons. And its on the lowest CC profile that bears a sword in the whole box (or even the whole sector). So why put swords on models that can not even use it? Greetinx to Swiss Guard (#1 of useless (cosplay) sword displaying in a Sci Fi game and Ye Mao Hacker ... I mean even Shang Ji or Daofei are at least able to know where the pointy end should end in case of an actual CC. Apart from this the Pentinent looks good for its price. A high burst weapon supported by mime -3 with its own hacking protection and the ups and downs for beeing S5 with high ARM makes a good gunfighter. The Cenobits are damn dirt chaep for mime -6 link fillers that can later go out and hit some a$$. Maybe we see a third one in a link team box. The Initiates are a very usful addition, given a second unit with AD to Bakunin and the camo/Minelayer version is nearly a must have for the repeater coverage which will be great in Bakunin. The Orphans reminds me of the Cheerkillers. Slightly better because mime-3. The MSV MMRs are nearly the same price. The Stigmata is unique, filling a gap created by itself (a member of a local whats app group pointed out). I think its in the wrong sectorial or isn´t Tunguska the hacking sectorial anymore? When you buff it with firewall you give your opponent a -6 - thats a big deal. Robin looks like cute and stingy additon. Again repeater coverage, armed with a BS 14 crossbow. I somewhat expected it to be hacker also ... I mean she is a rouge AI. Hopefully we see her in other sectorials as well. A lot of mimetism, a lot of ECM-Hacking -3 and repeater and swords Spoiler: €dith Very intresting is the amount of Bak only units. I think this will help not to bloat vanilla too much. I am curious if it will help to sell more minis (because their use is limited) or less (because their use is limited ;-). Stigma is S6 - you have to use a Gecko or something else. But remember: to prox is bad - buy things and play them when they are painted is good
Yeah the sword is definitely coming off my Penitent. Actually stoked it will be plastic, as I'm going to have to repose it. The E/M grenade launcher that will be B3 in a linkteam is intriguing. Probably won't see a ton of use, but if you manage to catch something with a crappy Dodge bunched up with some HI friends, it could be decent.
Just realized that Orphans can Duo with a Stigmata, serving the TAG as an Engineer -and- a Repeater. That is really, really useful. The Orphan can either fix the TAG, or sneak into Repeater range while the Stigmata is Link Leader, and the TAG gets Firewall from its own Duo-linked order. Very efficient. [Following this thought... it's pretty clear that N4 game balance could really benefit from the Blackout hacking program being returned to the game. Being able to turn off comms gear as an ARO was a good feature of the game. Now that Tohaa pheroware stuff is so nasty, and Pitcher spam has become an issue, Blackout could really help with balance. Put it on EVO remotes or something, if they don't want to junk up basic Hacking Devices]. Paint What Thou Canst and Proxy All That Other Shiz Shall Be the Whole of the Law.
Love the Stigmata design. I hope it is indicative of what we can expect from the Lizard resculpt. Very interesting unit as well. I like that it does not have a remote pilot. No need for a remote specialist when you are one yourself.
you keep telling others use eclipse or white noise like all the factions have access to it. Use cautious or the sceno. yeah, i can do that always, 100% of the times. jeez, how i could be so dumb. uhhhhUUHHUHHH shoot her with B5 HMG. Oh, yes, 4-5 dices at... 15s or less usually, vs 2 missiles at 14s. WOW, so bulletproof strategy, it should work 10 out of 10 times shoot her with rifle or spitfire, Well, first i must get closer, but i cant because, well, is a linked missile launcher and she bring some friends to the table We spent the first years of N4 hating about long range weapon HI in a core with 4 cheerleaders... why suddenly is OK with the riot+4 mods?
IMO the active use of the Reaktion more than makes up for its investment given BJC's lack of long-range active options, but I've gotten use out of Sin Eaters against Tohaa- Makauls have a lot of trouble passing Eclipse rolls against them.
Personally I would say different, different enouph for people to reach other conclusions. I do not think there is a right or wrong meta.
Whenever people talk about faction power levels and that some units are bad, I always think of fighting games. What is good in fighting games, like Infinity, has always been very dependent on your meta. Just because it does not work for your meta, does not mean it is universally bad. And just because it works great in your meta, does not mean it is overpowered. The great thing about forums is that it allows one to discuss how things differ based on one's meta and reading other people's perspectives. I am loving the cohesion of the new Observance part of Bakunin. The link changes and new units brings new playstyles to this cool faction allows for more creative lists. I am looking forward to when other older sectorials get this love as well.
There's value to each perspective. Taking my own experience with the Locust in NCA as an example, they work well in my meta due to a surplus of Nomad players and other lists vulnerable to assassination runs- outside the odd Shas player, no Camo Token LTs around here. However, the Locust is objectively bad at its job- you need to take a KHD in order to get past templates, it's vulnerable if you go second, it's horribly expensive for what it brings, and any profile better than Line Infantry has a fair chance against one in melee. I take three of them in one list when I go to tournaments because they can make a surprisingly aggressive NCA list and defang opponents who deploy carefully, but I know I'm playing at a disadvantage compared to nearly every other faction in the game in this area- I know why I need them even if they're bad. Of course every role's got to have its worst entry, but it ought to be balanced out with usable strengths in the same faction, and it rarely is at the moment.
The problem with Sin Eaters is that they are a very “Feast or Famine” type unit; either your opponent can’t deal with/bypass them and they’re super good or your opponent can and they’re just a worse TR bot. I typically plan for my opponent to be able to remove my ARO pieces, so I don’t see Sin Eaters as very good. If they don’t make their points back on ARO, they are functionally useless in Active turn, and that’s no bueno. 1 Wound no shock immune also means they have a tendency to get hit once and go straight to dead; the ability to pick up TR bots with Engineers means they tend to waste more orders overall over the course of a game, which has value. There is some amount of value in taking an ARO piece that gives your opponent a harder time to remove, but there’s so many ways to beat or bypass a unit that only shoots good (smoke trick, infiltrators, parachutists…) that I never rely on them making their points back in ARO.
Depends on what you’re into. Spoiler: Stereotype alert I love speed and high risk and am shit at having a Plan B because I am American (see our healthcare and finance systems for examples of these traits writ large). The European ways of planning things and managing (more carefully, generally) risk in both life and games were often difficult for me to understand and then to have the patience for once I understood them. This played out on the Infinity table, at my job (which included playing games, funny enough), and in daily life. It’s funny how game behavior does reflect cultural background to some degree… though we are all also members of the geek/gamer subculture so there’s that factor too.
If you can’t pull off -any- of those several things when a single Riot Grrl is looking at one firelane on a table, you probably have bigger problems than what you’re doing with your miniatures. Sounds like you should just give up, and tell everyone how you just could ‘t beat one Riot Grrl. Yep. Because the problem was MSV2 and mimetism (reactive) or high-Burst (active) units with full core +3 BS bonuses… not MSV1 with no Mimetism in a non-pure link. Next up on False Equivalency Theater…
