Bakunin revamp: what's going, what's staying

It is not a huge underside until it is, and even HI cores can be broken down and then each left on its own frenzied and without cover.

 

I've never even once considered Impetuous or Frenzy a downside.

Oh, wait, you mean that I get one extra order to move the troop I want to move forward, forward? YES FUCKING PLEASE.

Seriously, we have morlocks and chimeras. Screening lone Cenobites is totally doable, and having a Penitent walk them up the table before unleashing them like a rabid man-eating roided-out motherfucker in powered armor to run roughshod all over the enemy midline is going to be FUN.

Again, these chicks are basically the female version of the Kaitok and I cannot stress how much fun that troop is. Slamming three chainrifle templates or four heavy pistol shots on someone's nogging will never stop being fun.

Oh, and I can put Cenobites AND riot grrls in the same list? So I can have double the power-armored angry ladies? Hell-fucking-yeah.

(Yes, I'm on the hype train now. WOOOO!)

 

You might be surprised how the worldview changes from meta to meta and player to player.

 

I use a single Riot ML or Spitfire in Vanilla sometimes. ML is a credible MSV ARO threat even at B1. Spitfire is an excellent attack piece.

The Frenzy discount on linked warbands is indeed too large.

But hard disagree with anyone saying Cenobites overpower Teutons. Teutons’ Dodge ability (both evading attacks and gaining movement), panzerfaust ranged option, NCO, Lt. option, and light shotgun flexibility are way better than a high-burst chainrifle and Mim -6 (especially given the template spam issue in N4). Cenobites are decent, but I’d take a Teuton over a Cenobite hands down if given the option.

 

Thank you for the inspiration, mate. I might actually go back to writing fan fiction.

 

Yeah they loose cover and GAIN an order. Also you can always reform a link.

 

Not always, each situation is unique, command tokens may run out, frenzied individuals can be wildcards that cannot form a link on their own are the two main reasons, others may happen.

 

Neither of those matter if the previously-good ARO piece dies in the same turn the link breaks.

At any rate whether or not Frenzy/Impetuous is a downside shouldn't be the main point of contention anyways; it's fairly clear that it is; the problem, if it exists, would be in how much of a discount units are getting respective to the downside.

Of course I would contend that the problem lies less in some units getting too much of a discount but in other units being too expensive in general, but that's an entirely different topic for an entirely different thread.

So, to get back on topic:

My biggest issue with this whole release is the Penitent's sword.

CB, please. I beg of you. That sword is 6 feet long and a foot wide.

Why the hell is that a "CC Weapon." That should be a DA CCW at the very least. I don't care if the unit herself doesn't have the skills to use it, she's got a giant Buster Sword and I want to use it to smash people.

PLEASE

 

I am personally most interested in what is going to come out of the Stigmata? Little stolen PanO crabbot? Really short pupnik? Puppet shaped like a little cherub?

 

As a current Bakunin player, I am STOKED that Riots stayed as-is, and very hopeful that the Moderator core with Riots and Zoe&Pi will still be available when we see the actual Army list. That Moderator mixed link is not at all overpowered, and I use it all the time. It’s got utility, but no Comp bonuses and lots of weak points.

The only players who actually thought Riots or a mixed Moderator link with 1-2 Riots were overpowered are sulky warband-spam lovers who hate having to think beyond “I throw smoke, move in and chainrifle.” Higher-tech armies have White Noise-d my Riots plenty of times, mid-tech use Eclipse, and Ariadna players tend to just shoot the Riot ML off the table with high Burst weapons… except the rare chainrifle lover who can’t adapt.

Cenobites will compete with Taskmaster/Morlocks links for that Haris slot… hard choice there but I’m probably sticking with my Taskmaster team for assault duties. Pretty hard to beat the Taskmaster’s utility and the Morlocks’ disposability. Gonna test both options out, who knows.

But for a reactive Haris (alongside a Riot ML in a different link), that Cenobite HRL looks pretty great!

 

Actual Bakunin player here: Hard disagree with everything you said other than liking the initiated nuns (who are like actually-fair-priced Morans), and Agata being overpriced (by maybe 4-5 points... actually glad she has Dogged not NWI, she'd be a bit broken with NWI and that healing skill).

Sin Eaters are good. Mimetism plus full-burst ARO with decent armor is great. With a likely small points adjustment for N4 standards, they'll be even better. The Mk12 is nice on crowded tables, the HMG is better than a TR bot whenever you have the points. I field Sin Eaters when I play camo-heavy Bakunin, which seems like it's going to get even better with the Initiates.

Cenobites are on par with Teutons (see above). Both are probably underpriced by 3 points or so per trooper, but it's not that bad.

The Stigmata's design (both sketch and rules) is great. The non-anthropomorphic head of the Lizard was the coolest part of the mini.

Also I'm definitely going to use my current lizard model to proxy a Stigmata, so I can get this thing on the table ASAP. Been looking for a reason to work on speed-painting TAGs anyways!

- BS 13 on Phoenix vs BS11 on the Cenobites is a big difference.
- Smoke and PH 13 is a really good deal, especially since there are some NASTY MSV2 hidden deployment units in Steel Phalanx.
- Also no pure cores for Cenobites, only Haris or mixed in with Reverends (non-pure link).
- Phoenix can be Lt. Not that you would want to do that often, but he at least helps lend doubt to who is the Lt. (okay it's Machaon like 75% of the time but OCCASIONALLY someone else ).

Seems like okay balance.

...because they're decently balanced in N4, fluffy, and not too hard to overcome for skilled players?

I'm hoping the mixed Moderator core stays in, as someone who actually plays it. Bypassing or killing a single Riot ML isn't that hard. The rest of the link is just decent utility, with a good spot for a 6th Sense hacker who plays defense (Zoe). Definitely not overpowered, and now that we will have other decent options not likely to be a constant crutch build either.

Disagree. Reactive-only being an option in addition to Total Reaction is more balanced to have in the game than just having Total Reaction, IMO. I think you're right that Sin-Eaters are slightly overpriced, but I'd be fine with them in the high 20s. They're WAY better than a 25-point TR bot, if you have other places to spend all your active-turn orders anyways.

 

TR bots are superior, they keep getting back up and wasting orders for more turns. This is even more relevant with more fireteaming engineers running around for Bakunin now.

 

Strange how those inconsistencies are consistently falling on the optimized side and mostly for the same faction all the time.

 

Same for lots of good healers. TR bots have that active-turn utility which is nice, but BS 13 Mim -3 Sin-Eaters are way better for actually stopping alpha strikes IMO.

 

So if (by your own words) most of the time is not even a downside why it's such a huge point discount? Hell, even the 10% of the time you are not actively ignoring the rule you are getting an extra Order out of it anyway.

Oh, yes, to cheat the "formula"

 

No it's the extra wound and before dieing and shock immunity that does the job. The odds of taking 3 wounds at once are significantly low, sin eaters are far more like to explode in a gory mess and are shock vulnerable.

I occasionally meme 5 TR bot lists, they are exceedingly difficult to actually make stay dead outside of a couple of very specialised profiles. Comparatively 1W fleshbags are nowhere near as reliable in their longevity.

 

I said it is not a huge downside until it is, then, it is a huge problem.

 

Cenobites are Reverends. And about that "LOL, Riots are easy, just Eclipse/White Noise", I hope you realize there are entire factions without neither of those. Also, the main problem with both Riots and Cenobites is them being too cheap, with means you are effectively playing with more points that your non-Frenzy-exploiting opponents. Now add Cenobites and other suspiciously undercosted profiles on top of that.

At the end of the day, the problem is Frenzy/Imp exploiting and some factions having access to every trick in the book while others are left to hang dry.

 

I can see that. But not losing those face to faces in the first place seems even more efficient than having to be revived to remain a problem.

In vanilla, putting a Sin Eater in front of a Spektr was something I tried a couple times in N3. Even better bang for the buck when you don't have linkteams at all. Good fun when it worked, but it was also a big investment in reactive play though and I was crap at channeling opponents into kill zones back then (still not great at it but at least have some basic tricks now).