I seriously think that most of the panoceania tags (and not just the tags, but I would like to focus on them, because the tags should be the strong point of pano), should be updated, both for the cost and for the rules. This is my humble thought of how a few small changes could bring excellent models back into play. Jotum = Like now but fix the cost to 80pts Seraph = Add Berserk and CC Attack (+1 Burst) and fix the cost to 78 (I think the HMG profile could be removed) Uhlan = Add Multispectral Visor Level 1. No cost changes. Cutter = Add Pulzar. No cost changes. Squalo = Remove 4pts from the cost of every profile. Remove the simple not Lieutenant profile. Add a Chain Of Command profile for 85pts. Tikbalang = Ok Dragao = Ok
Your suggestions are reasonable. I do agree that the Uhlan and Seraph need some tuning. Giving the Uhlan MSV1 feels like a good suggestion and makes it distinct from similar units, like the Swiss Guard and Cutter. I also feel like splitting each heavy weapon into its own profile and cutting points accordingly would help. I would definitely use the Seraph more if I could berserk with it. I've said it before, but I would love it if it had a Combat Jump (PH=14) profile, perhaps with a vulkan shotgun. It should be an assault TAG.
Coming from NCA, I'd most like to see the Zapper proliferate to Squalos outside Varuna- it's quite vulnerable to attacks from up close, and otherwise it's a solid TAG. The Uhlan's issues are more to do with meta- it carries several powerful heavy weapons and isn't likely to miss, but very few players leave several long-range AROs anymore and it costs a fortune. The one thing I think would truly help all PanO TAGs without manipulating the points formula would be improving the WIP on the Crabbot- at a scant WIP10, even worse than a Hungry, it's just not efficient for objective play.
I'd say Cutter, Tikbalang (MO version) and Dragao are reasonably priced, rest of the TAGs require some face lifting.
An interesting and different way of making PanO TAGs safer from CC threats would be equipping them with PARA CCWs (-9), standing for good built-in security measures. Multi Pistols as standard issue would have good synergy with high BS, too. Put together it'd allow these units to fare well in CQB without further proliferation of DTWs.
Uhlan could have some unique setting like msv1 or sensor or multi spitfire instead hmg. And of course multi pistol and dtw Jotum should have and ecm -3 hacking and drop point Seraph could have both version with auxbot, some improvement for cc and drop bears All other tags should have some type of heavy/multi pistol
I think it depend on meta and other players but in italian meta is the worst pano tag, or just vbetter than seraph(that is the worst one)
I am amazed that a Burst 3 Damage 15 feuerbach with BS 15 Camo, and a back up Damage 16 HMG could be considered bad. Sure it is pricy, but you get a lot for it. Feuerbach are really really good in the Armor heavy meta. But like you said, it can be meta dependent.
The camo state gives you huge amount of protection from all the stuff that wants to come up and remove it in one alpha; kitsune and equivalents for example. Mimetism and suprise attack helps you win face to face rolls and when you hit, those guns are great armour and infantry killers. Bs15 on that platform is amazing!
It's good, but the problem is that it competes with many similar units. For 9 points more you get a Cutter, with +2 ARM, an extra level of mimetism, and a MULTI HMG. For 20 points less, you could take a Tikbalang or a Swiss Guard. I think the Uhlan would be a more attractive pick if it was closer to 75-80 points, or if it had equipment/skills that made it stand apart from similar units, such as having MSV1 or Triangulated Fire. It can certainly do work as it is. I just find that's it's overshadowed by similar units.
I think it fits is fluff as a TAG hunter. Generally, a Cutter is great, but the Uhlan excels at killing TAGs. Running the numbers, with both using surprise shot, the Uhlan Burst 3 Feuerbach has nearly twice the chance (23% versus 12%) to one-shot (3+ Wounds) an opposing basic TAG versus the Burst 4 Multi HMG Cutter. A burst 3 Feuerbach, IMO, makes it stand out compared to other TAGs. But it really matters how often you face opposing TAGs.
I can't help but laugh at this. PanO already has some of the most powerful TAGs and certainly most variety and yet you want them more powerful?
Interesting. I expected the Cutter's better mimetism and better burst would make it more of a sure thing, but both TAGs are about as likely to land one wound, and as you said, the Uhlan is more likely to cause multiple wounds. I think I might need to put my assumptions aside and give the Uhlan more consideration.
I think there might be an intention, that some TAGs have a weak point or two But Jotum as first TAG that gets a 25% price disount, if you take two would be a nice additon to SWF
I must admit that the first time I read this I looked at this it was through the lens of N3 TAG prices and had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. That said I think the big issue here is the premise being that the TAGs should be better because they are PanO, not because the unit itself needs it. Maybe instead of demanding a free lunch, a something for nothing, demand better designed raison de'être? "But what about Marut or Zeta?" Well, the key conceit of essentially both Aleph and O-12 is that their hardware is the best that PanO can produce but that the PanO militaries aren't really willing to pay for - but they don't get much choice. Besides, Agamemnon now exists I'd argue as a warning example to anyone dissing Seraph of what the Seraph could have been :) "But what about Combined?" So, I believe you can find an old video where Bostria straight up admits that the design space that Combined has is 'things that would feel like cheating for a human faction'. They're the big baddiest baddies and techiest technologists. Say what you want about that design (I don't like it) but they are also meant to have better stuff than humans. "But what about Nomads?" You mean the Gator, right? It's the Gator. The hilarious thing about the Gator is that, as much as it straight up cheats the points system, it is still playing second fiddle to Szally. I believe it's not outlandish to say Szally is more popular. Says a lot about the HRMC, doesn't it? You know Szally - the Dragoe that traded it's targeting system for a pilot that never ends up seeing table time. Basically, PanO TAGs are better because they are PanO TAGs. Remote Presence scales very well with general competency and tankiness, and PanO TAGs get that for free! So the bottom line is more so that if a TAG is a bad compromise, mushed between other TAGs or units, maybe the core design needs to be changed than demanding free buffs. Shout out to the absolute beast that is the Jotum - one of few units I'll never see PanOple on the international Discords complain about (other than it's atrociously low AVA stat). ARM 10 is on the truly crazy end of scaling.
I can agree about the design- put a PanO TAG in most other factions and they'd dominate, but PanO itself is terrible at supporting its own finest assets. The TAGs tend to lack redundant secondary weapons and CC bloat, keeping their costs efficient for their primary purpose, but most of the faction leans into that same shooting niche instead of providing units to cover the weaknesses of their armoured apex predators. I'd trade any discount on the Squalo for decent DZ-based Minelayers for point defense and upgunned Killer Hackers to keep enemy Hackers from getting too greedy with Repeater coverage. The one thing I would appreciate for free is buffing the Crabbot to be better at objective play. Given Pilots are free anyway, having the Crabbot be so incompetent (WIP 10 is the lowest in the game, even Taigha Creatures are smarter) when the RemPres TAGs in other factions have at least average stats is a bit insulting.
@SpectralOwl I agree with your points. Despite PanO TAGs being on average better than other factions the identity of PanO itself as "shooting is supreme" eats away at their usefulness. Due to the problems you mentioned. What good is having a great TAG/mecha when you have trouble or can't reliably defend it from being taken out or crippled in an easy manner. It makes those advantages seem mute when there is a good chance you might not get to use your "best of the best" unit and bring it's power to bare fully.
Aren't they WIP 11, same as Karkata and Zetbot? I don't disagree, but it's not a huge issue since getting out of a TAG is quite rare. Personally I think I've only ever deployed a pilot twice and I've only ever used Zetbot to push a button. WIP as the primary design difference isn't all that interesting, however. Since REM Pilots can be reset out of in case of a loss; for flesh and bone pilots the order(s) should be generated by them and not the TAG. Hell, only about three are okay combatants and two are good specialists, so it's quite uneven what you get from the pilots as well.
