New to Yu Jing

Play whatever you think looks fun because the sectorial is a straight up dumpster fire. It fails to defend itself in a hacking dominated metagame and does a poor job of both delivering and defending against alpha strikes. If you think 2 Su Jian and a crapload of Kuang Shi sounds fun then run that. It will absolutely struggle, but everything in ISS is a struggle so you're not losing out there.

 

ISS is in a pretty good place these days, at least compared to N3.

 

Let's see them then :)

 

I think IS is fine except for certain missions where it's very difficult to compete in. It certainly has its flaws but it also has positives. I actually have some Dakini's on order to play them agin and looking forward to it.

 

There's a pretty good case to be made that Vanilla YJ is the place to run a Su Jian right now, as the duo with Krit is so much fun. In vanilla the engineer duo lets you use the HSG Su Jian to can get up close and personal, tank hacking, templates and e/m mines in the face and get fixed right up easily. My current thinking for ISS is that you're probably better off with a Spitfire Su Jian, to avoid over-extending yourself.

RCR Hsien
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GROUP 1 7
HSIEN (Lieutenant) MULTI Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (+1 | 53)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
ZHÀNYING (Sensor, Triangulated Fire) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 19)
BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 19)
MIRANDA ASHCROFT Combi Rifle, E/Mitter(+1B), Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
SFORZA FTO Viral Rifle, Adhesive Launcher(+1B), Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 26)
MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
GROUP 2 7 1 5
CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 54)
MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
GARUDA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
4 SWC | 298 Points
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I think the list above looks fun and has a variety of tools in it. Lunah and a bounty hunter sniper give you some ARO presence, Miranda and Sforza are great looking units who have tools that can shut down enemy tags, the Hsien MMR has good ammo for most situations and brings along a sensor Zhanying to discover things on the way. He's a bit of an obvious LT, but the tinbot at least makes him hard to hack.

What you could do is take an alt list that works well against non-hacking opponents - in that case you can ditch the tinbot and maybe up gun to an hmg or take the LT 2 hsien. It's also worth looking at putting in sensor bots this season for the free tactical awareness order and marksmanship.

Here's another take:

Doorkicker
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GROUP 1 8 4
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
HSIEN (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Specialist Operative]) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (+1 | 54)
HÙSÒNG Yaókòng Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24)
SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
GROUP 2 7
MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
DAKINI MULTI Sniper Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 20)
PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, E/Mitter, Madtraps / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 27)
DAKINI Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 21)
PANGGULING (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15)
GARUDA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
6 SWC | 299 Points
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Another list I'm thinking of taking for a spin soon is to use Dakini to build a firebase, along with a Sophotect to keep rems up and running. The Dakini MMR may be the best gun for N4, as the HMG is great, but the AP ammo will really help hit hard targets. A pair of MMR might be better than the MMR and HMG combo I'm running here. I'm aiming to take this against non-hacking opponents and running the +2 LT order hsien around the table to cause pain and score points, but wouldn't really want to run hard into a repeater network with him. You get to take two lists to a tournament and maybe this is one of them.

You may well be able to get more reliably winning lists with other YJ factions, but ISS still has some flavor and can win games. It's a little tricky looking at the ISS toys and realizing they work better elsewhere, like YJ running Su Jian better and OSS running Dakini better etc, but you still have an opportunity to pull things together and have fun with them. Kuang Shi links, Wu Ming links and Law & Order links are still fairly unique, so be sure to have some fun with those.

 

There are three more fairly solid looking lists in here:

 

A duo with the Su Jian and MBH is not bad.

I no longer use KS in most missions. They are not bad. I just don't rely on them for all missions.


──────────────────────────────────────────────────
GROUP 1 9 1 1
SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 54)
MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9)
KǍNRÈN (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33)
DAKINI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
DAKINI Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 21)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18)
CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
NINJA (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
GROUP 2 4
MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
6 SWC | 299 Points
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That's not a bad take for this season - Weibing make a pretty effective warband replacement, able to move fast, shoot well AND bring scoring and toolkit potential. Tac awareness gives more benefits than an impetuous order with no drawbacks.

 

They are a super took kit. I've been taking at least one in every list. They were already pretty good but so much better now. I hope it goes beyond this season. They could only be better if someday they get more weapon options. I really like the Haqq one with Red Fury.

I forgot to point out, the list I made can either do a Celestial+Deva+Dakini core or two haris.

 

I saw lists that were represented here and I am very happy, that we dont need two boxes on kuang shi. More experienced players told me in the past (it was 2019) to get two kuang shi boxes... I was not going to do that because CB made me used to unique poses for miniatures x)

 

2019 was during the previous edition, N3, at which point running 8 Kuang Shi was normal because this was both pre nerf to the Kuang Shi as well as when it was normal to run 20 models because there was no 15 model limit.

One of ISS's big issues going straight into N4 was those two changes. Nerfing running more Kuang Shi by forcing multiple Celestial Guard to be taken with them instead of 1 and then making it near impossible to properly leverage them en masse due to combat group limitations. ISS had a pretty severe identity crisis at this point as it had slowly been slipping behind the curve as the game changed as things the sectorial did either fell behind or propagated into other armies in a more refined fashion.

• The Wu Ming were one of the most cost efficient full HI links you could find in the game that didn't sacrifice long range firepower. HI profiles for 25 points back then were a rarity and HI links also generally didn't have access to equipment like mines, big DTWs, or Grenade Launchers. Now none of those things are particularly hard to find (or in the Grenade Launcher case worth putting on the table), and 25 points isn't even exactly cheap and there's a bigger demand on finding TacAw and NCO options to place into fireteams. Even staying in faction IA more or less replaced Wu Ming as the poster child for effective HI fireteams, while as it should be thematically it didn't help the sectorial at all.

• ISS were more or less the prototype for core fireteams of 1 expensive wildcard pointman + 4 cheap support members with the Crane + Celestial Guard fireteams. Back in the day being able to field this kind of fireteam was a rarity, now, basically everyone can do it and usually better than what ISS can.

• ISS thrived on the ability to field mass bodies that produced regular orders as batteries for fast and effective attack pieces like the Su Jian or the Garuda. N4's change where the bodies became limited and there was a shift in focus in the meta game to find bonus orders such as NCO or TacAw for a single order rather than raw regular order counts for multiple combat groups. They went from fielding being the order spam sectorial to having less orders than Invicibles the HI sectorial, overall wasn't a great thing for ISS.

So what's been done since then by CB to combat ISS' growing identity issues? Well they've leaned heavily into the Aleph side of things, which I think is pretty cool from a thematic standpoint and particularly there's some neat fireteams you can make with the Dakini. Unfortunately it's still in a nascent stage and isn't fully implemented to be truly effective. Problems it needs rectified to make it actually effective to build around:

• Dakinis are great but they're fragile. They need to be backed up by Engineers because otherwise you're just gambling on your fireteams falling apart to stray dice rolls. ISS unfortunately has a massive lack of engineers, they have in fact 1 and they're not even cost effective. The only engineer in the sectorial is the sophotect who is both pricey and has no fireteam options to allow it to provide close support to an active attack unit. Dakini fireteams want to be backed up by options like Krit, Jeong, Parvati or Trisha.

• Dakinis, and ISS in general, are relatively vulnerable to hacking. They don't have particularly good or widespread options to remove enemy hacking obstacles be they repeaters or the hackers themselves nor do they have good access to spread around firewall protection either with both their tinbot options locked behind expensive and/or restrictive fireteam options.

 

@Triumph thank you for describing situation. I hope, CB would fix the problems.

Now I have at least a hope, that it would be not like fixing tohaa or other OOP-sectorials...
I hope, they would give IS attention like with morats, bakunin, and etc.

But not faster than I would restore my collection of IS x)
I still want to get some of the miniatures they have now.