Post faq 1.3: Can hackers declare any ARO when they get an ARO from their hacking area?

Best I can see you could Move in their Hacking Area to provoke a hacking ARO, then move into LoF to avoid a BS Attack. You couldn't do this in ZoC so you won't be able to bait into CC unless you had a Movement of 9 or more (bike with multiterrain moving though terrain)

 

case: Nourkias moves into ZoC but remains out of LoF, victim uses ARO "BS Attack" or "CC Attack", the following occurs:
- if Nourkias moves into BtB contact then the victim does a "BS attack" or "CC attack"
- if Nourkias decides to stay out of LoF behind that wall with his second short order - the victim will definitely do "idle".

Is that correct? Is the victim allowed to declare ARO "BS Attack" or "CC Attack" if Nourkias is still not in LoF?

 

As colbrook says, this is not related to Requirements. Hacking Area AROs are limited to Hacking Programs or Reset, in a similar way to Skill declarations in Engaged State.

Please note that the first paragraph with 'can be reacted to with Hacking Programs or with Reset' is from FAQ 1.1.1, so this part of the errata is not new.

This would require the Active Trooper to be outside ZoC and outside LoF, so a non-Hacker can't declare a BS Attack ARO either.

 

Yes, because requirements are not checked until after all skills are declared and ZoC AROs don't have any restrictions on what can be declared.

 

Isn´t that something good? Having to think where all your repeaters are placed instead of spreading them like seeds on a field by an overly enthusiastic farmer? Post FAQ1.3 half the forum was crying in agony how powerful hackers are. Now they are suddenly poor meek prey, outplayed by their own toys?

 

This makes no sense. So according to @ijw, the following could now happen:

- Active turn player pitches a repeater next enemy hacker
- Active turn misslebot idles or moves (out of LoF of hacker)
- The above creates an ARO window for hacker, but according to @ijw the *only* AROs allowed would be Reset or Hacking Program. So the hacker could not Dodge.
- As second action, missilebot fires missiles at the sitting duck hacker.

So missilebots just became even more obnoxious, with the above interpretation not allowing hackers to even dodge (while non-hackers next to them can dodge just fine). This makes no sense in any way, and I'm pretty sure this is *not* the intent of this FAQ entry.

The entry in question says "can be reacted to with Hacking Programs or with Reset." not "can only be reacted to with Hacking Programs or with Reset."

I'm sure there are other bad interactions too, allowed by above interpretation, but that "no-dodge-allowed missilebot" is an obvious one.

 

You just forgot that the enemy Hacker has to be previously Targeted. How do you do it, if he is out of LoF? Via Hacking+Repeater? Expect to spend some order in FtF vs Reset, Oblivion or Trinity... If the Hacker is in LoF you surely have more effective ways to deal with him...

 

Well, Grenade Launchers can use the same delivery method like the GML Bot even without a previous targeting. And even despite speculative GLs are rediculously bad they become quite useful against a targe only able to perform an Idle.

Thus if the intent of this FAQ is to make a super widespread Hacking area less desirable it somehow missed that goal.
(With all honesty I still have no real clue what should be achieved with all the hacking related errating)

 

You're right, I forgot to add a Spotlight from a hacker via that Repeater there. But let's assume that goes through, we are still left in the silly situation where hacker cannot (supposedly) dodge an obviously incoming missile attack while a non-hacker right next to them can.

I'd claim it's obvious that is not the intent of the FAQ, here.

 

How will the target be forced to Idle?
Speculative Shot is an Entire Order skill. As soon as the GL declares a Speculative shot, even if he is inside Hacking Area, the Templace is placed and the poor Hacker can Dodge. There in no way to force a "Hacking/Reset" here.

Let's assume that my dice rolls only Criticals... It is such a niche situation that I don't think it wreak the game...

And it is only REALLY exploytable against EVO Hacker with no way to offend or first-timer that never ecountered it, like most of the weirdness of Infinity---

 

I would ask what @tox asked, why is this an issue?

 

I think I see the issue and it's... it comes with a bunch of caveats. The biggest caveat is that you don't gain much by doing this.

Sure, it's possible to sacrifice a Fireteam or Coordinated miniature using your own or your opponent's Repeater, but the opponent's hacker is kind of screwed to begin with and often declaring Reset and hoping to roll amazing on the ARM rolls isn't a bad reaction to a Guided Missile regardless which they can still do with a hacking ARO. Less so if there's a secondary mini that's Targeted, of course, but point still stands about being essentially screwed and like... hacking AROs aren't that deadly unless the sacrifice is a hacker themselves and the target is a KHD.

 

In this whole scene i ´m remembering the N3 Puppetmaster: unable to walk or even ARO to anything as long as he controls his little puppets. Why exactly did the world not go nuts cause of that? A right,.... nomads. And because the units was (and is) stupid good.

Imagine Hacker beeing so much distracted by potential victims to their cyber-wizardry they are not aware of any danger that comes from the real world, especially when forced to work through an enemy Firewall.


I see that all (intentional or not) as a slight nerf to hacker, which are (listening to the quite whispers in this forum) are utterly broken and way to stronk and now are threatened by such a niche strategy (which is not even played that much as the comments here asume)

 

But it’s not “fluff” text, it’s rules. The rules explicitly state Hacking Area AROs are a Hacking Program or Reset, not the whole menu. Simple as.

 

The problem with this:

If that we take @ijw meaning that you can ONLY react with those two is that with the new addition of this in the latest FAQ:

Then this is going to happen whenever it is possible and available:

Step 1: Choose an important enemy hacker that has no MSV. If she is inside a Fireteam, more salt add to the wound, as you're about to make him ignore her sixth sense ability and fire team mods.
Step 2: Make sure that he/she is inside the ZoC of one of your repeaters. Choose between either throwing a pitcher, place depoyable a repeater, or dodge with one of your repeater dudes into her ZoC.
Step 3: Throw some Smoke in front of the LoF you plan to have into the expensive hacker/Killer hacker with your MSV1/MSV2 Killing pieces that is not hacker. This step is interchangeable with Step 2 as will.
Step 4: Activate your Kill Piece, declare move into the Smoke. He is out of LoF and ZoC, but inside the Hacking Area of the Hacker thanks to the repeater/pitcher/depoyable repeater. The Enemy hacker has now the opportunity to declare ARO, but only Hacking Program or Reset. Your Killing Piece is not a hacker. So he is forced into IDLE. Declare BS Attack with your full Burst. Kill the hacker.

Repeat as needed against all the important hackers of the enemy. Variants of this include to merge Step 2 and Step 4 by coordinated order of a repeater equipped trooper that moves into ZoC of the hacker, while your killing pieces move into the smoke, as the first order declaration. And I am sure that somewhere of the game there has to be the equivalent of a team sirius, but with a MSV1/2 trooper.

Is this an issue?

Maybe, it depends. It is exactly one more orde intense of the usual smoke throw + bs attack later... but with the smoke throw + bs attack at least the victim can either shoot back with a mod, or dodge. With this is an assured IDLE.

 

Since it's somewhat related to the topic: am I correct in assuming that since Holomasked Hackers are a thing, strictly speaking if you have a hacker inside your opponent's Repeater, then that Hacker is going to have a Hacking ARO whenever an opponent Trooper activates?
Or should that perhaps only include units and factions that you don't know yet if they could be a Hacker (meaning you do have to assume you get an ARO until a Bao confirms whether or not but you won't against a Namurr?)
Or should that simply be something the Holomasked Hacker can just reveal when it suits them "Oh, btw, you just lost that ARO because I'm not saying Sforza is actually a Kanren hacker, but he's a Kanren hacker and you get to guess what version"?