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Allow 2 HARIS if you can get CORE+HARIS

Discussion in 'Infinity Army' started by P4ela154, Nov 1, 2022.

  1. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    That would be Tohaa players underusing an option. Again, not a valid argument that they would be losing anything exclusive.
     
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  2. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Azra'il and Gecko are expensive, but they are also AVA3 and AVA4. If you ever take two of those high-cost unit; putting them in 2 distinct haris is much better than squeezing them in the same 8" bubble haris. Now, that alone does not mean that it is OP. After all, you can always take a azra'il/gecko in a haris plus another expensive but different unit in a 3-men core (and the list is probably better off taking varied unit rather than duplicates).
     
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  3. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Active Member

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    Qapu Khalqi players have only ONE fireteam with DUO/HARRIS label only. Other FT can be create as CORE with 3 members. So it's not so critical for them, they can get together a Harris with azrael and another Harris now.
    The cost of a 2 Harris Gecko is at least 174 points, so you pay for it.
     
  4. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Given the cost of Rafiq FTOs or wildcard replacements, the cost of the Azrail haris is definitely self-limiting right now.

    Having AVA 1 on the Rafiqs is a hard limit on the number of those Haris teams available with Tac Aware in ITS 14 for the moment, even if there wasn’t a single-Haris limit. You can use Hafza or Odalisques instead, limits the power of the link quite a bit.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Gain some lose some. It's a trade off and trade offs are what makes the game balance.

    It should be noted that those sectorials that does not stand to benefit as much from this as some of the big beneficiaries are going to be losing out on this. After all, in a competitive environment, what you have is valued in comparison to what your opponent have.
    ISS is a very good example of what high flexibility of Haris can do; Raveneye did wonders for ISS with their super-flexible access to Haris which counter-acted that some peak performing pieces lost out on the full fireteam bonus (helped of course that ISS never really relied on pumping +3BS from Fireteam to bruteforce difficult obstacles).

    To apply this all willy-nilly is a pretty big deal for the macro balance and I'd argue it's probably a lot more gainful to look at each sectorial as an individual entity rather than apply this carte blanche. If there's a need for a specific sectorial to receive a benefit similar to this it might be applied to that sectorial only, or maybe even to a specific Fireteam to be able to create a core-haris so that you can promote a less-used Fireteam over the run of the mill auto-include.
     
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  6. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Okay, put that way @Mahtamori definitely see your point about balance.

    Shas, Ikarii, JSA, USARF seem like the forces where this would be most merited and would not result in min-maxing.

    I still think potential proliferation of Harises currently limited to 1x per list in other forces wouldn’t have much effect. Bounty Hunter teams, bike teams are the bulk of likely second harises, and they have built in limitations (try moving 6x S4 bases around on most tables, then add link limits).
     
  7. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I'd get up to some dirty stuff with dual monk haris options. For the sake of balance and faction identity, I expect the restriction and matching terminology to be there for a reason. I'd leave it as it is.
     
  8. Urist

    Urist Well-Known Member

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    Did CB ever come back to reevaluate the double haris for QK? They gave it to WinterFor, Imperial Service, and some other factions, then took it away from only QK saying it was a mistake. When people complained, they said they would reconsider it, but then never came back with an final response.

    Would QK be overpowered with 2 haris fireteams, being the original haris sectorial?
     
  9. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Active Member

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    You can do same now, but without one monk. So you can create full core fireteam with 10 green orders in one group
     

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  10. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    I'd say that +1B on smoke and all their templates is a pretty big deal. And don't sleep on the +3 discover monks get from 3man. I had games when opponents were really surprised by monk discovering their mim-6 units on 14s and 11s.

    Just after raveneye I actually posted about the ability to change core to haris for the sake of monks. But now after playing with them for a bit I'm pretty certain it would be too strong. So yeah, faction by faction would be the only reasonable way.
     
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