So now one profile in Haqq is the biggest problem of all? When Nomads, one of the best factions in Infinity, got a megaBuff to all their great REMs, including Zoe and Pi-well, which already were almost a staple unit?... I find it at least funny. First time since introduced Zamira is playable. She's scary - and it's good. Try to fight against her and then judge the change. PozdRawiam / Greetings
No one's claiming Haqq is anywhere near as overoptimized as Coregidor Jazz plus Tinbot, and no one is saying Zamira overpowers the faction. Spoiler: Tangent: Corregidor overpowered, Pi-Well not so much [Corregidor player here btw: I don't use them right now unless I need a crutch against a player much better than me. I actually don't think Pi-well's that out of hand, since he's got a combi, even in a link in Bakunin. You could already give him Marksmanship with a single order on an EVO. Given that every army got a similar buff on their FO-bots, and the Haqq ones have Red Furies, I don't think Pi's buffs are too crazy.] What I am saying is that Zamira is clearly as overpowered as old Muttawiah were, and probably worse thanks to the new way Dodge works. Stopping her will require specific builds with multiple Hidden AROs at very least (or all-camo armies), or never bringing your key pieces down from building-tops (oh what fun). [Of course, old Mutts were overpowered in very different ways, but it's a comparison not a direct link.] Also like Mutts, if you go first you'll have to spend half your orders killing an 11-point Irregular model if you don't want to face an unstoppable missile. Again, what great fun. :/ Unfortunately, getting "a chance" to play against this unit is highly likely, just like we all got to "enjoy" 2x Mutts in every single Haqq army for N3. It's likely to be in every vanilla Haqq list from now on (like Morans in Corregidor too I guess). So yeah, we're all gonna get to "playtest" getting reamed by this unit with no way to counter it. Oh what fun. At least one can't take 2-4 Zamiras, thank god. She'll just take out one piece in the opposing army with very little chance to stop her. Still not fun, but at least it isn't old-Mutts bad. It's extra confusing to see the game developers nerfing Taigha, and then in the same update giving an even -more- mobile unit Berserk with an E/M CCW, with Dogged and Shock Immunity to prevent a mine or an ARO on the way in from stopping her. Seriously CB, are you trolling us or what?
So are you thinking that is correct to compare pi-well and zamira? Zoi and pi-well cost 44 pts and oblige you to build roster around them. Whats point to take engeener and not to take rems for maintenance. And of course you need to take smart missile for realising pi-well. Same time you can make any haq roster with any idea and just add zamira on remaining pts
It's obviously not a direct comparison and I'd point out that Zoe and Pi-well are excellent stand-alone choice that make the list they slot into be built around them on their own. Missile REM makes the stakes of dealing with them a lot higher, but is not at all necessary to make them very worthy way of spending 44 points across two minis - especially in Bakunin. Not that I agree that Zamira is an obvious N3 Mutta situation since Zamira has a bunch of limitations and counter-plays that N3 Muttas just didn't have. You know, the whole small silhouette with all close range weapons you could possibly want including one that shoots through walls on 15 and smoke. A good Haqq player would routinely lock all the important parts of the board down completely with them, especially since the heavy back-attacks were fewer in N3. This is a large silhouette which isn't all that great in reactive and needs to pre-establish LOF before it does the horrible thing and is defeated by a holo-ad instead of being aided by it. It's definitely very different and works on a completely different axis.
I find zoe and piwell pretty balanced now. It is a good couple indeed and thats all. For me morans , uberfall commando, puppetbots, zuleyka , bearpod , jazz, diggers, bit-kiss and even fiday has to be more expensive or needs some stat changes. Zamira for instance seems to me now very strong but i need to see on the table it first before to judge whether it is too much strong or not. morans have to be at least 21 points in my book. I would even take him in my list even he is 25 pts. (repeater+koala+infiltrator combo is too strong). Before spotlight meta , it was already one of the best units in the game now more than that. Some rule changes effect unit power so much. In Morans we experienced it. there are also some units in the game too much optimised like jazz, gator and Unknown ranger. these type of units hinders to get other cool units which are still very good. like jazz hinders Interventor Unknown ranger hinders Veteran kazakh Gator hinders iguana/szalamandar etc. In these units,not about their costs but maybe need some changes. Like taking out mimetism from Unknown ranger. taking out nco from gator etc.
I don’t think you need much to hinder Iguana….. But Gator NCO vs Szally is nice point to consider what your list needs. Extra order or extra B, better range bands and 4pts ? TBH we need more such things in Infinity.
Just ressurect this thread for all clowns who with foaming at the mouth, told me how unbalanced was BS attacks -3. Live in new cursed world, god bless CB.
You know CB doing it and it being a good idea are not always the same thing, right? The Silverstar Prime going into suppressive fire would be a quite a roadblock.
Yeah, nah. This guy is going to be oppressive as fuck. Especially in Vanilla. I bet a hard candy that they'll nerf it to Mim-3 before release.
You just got a whole bucket full of extras for the same price as the Kriza. Imagine Kriza with MSV1, TA, BS14, MOV 6_2 and BTS 9 ...
Given the anything that comes out has a better than 50/50 of being labeled trash or bloat isn't only to be expected?
That might have more to do with CB's internal balance decision making being... spotty. Personally, I'm not going to buy into a faction if I don't find them both aesthetically and mechanically appealing. I'm no fan of Torchlight's aesthetic (there are some winners here and there, but the overall Romans/Sphess Mehrines aesthetic is just not my jive), and 'IA but better' is something that appeals to me about as little as IA in its present state does. At this point, I know that I'm a strong enough player that I can enjoy whatever faction that I'm genuinely interested in and generally do okay to well with them. On the other hand, CB over the last year or so has been doing their best to really test that with some of the power creep we get from release to release. That said, there are a lot of factions that could be a lot more fun or interesting to take up if they had just a little bit of cleaning up here or there. I know that there are several factions that I like the idea of, but I just won't touch because their design space is either too limited thanks to poorly balanced options internally, or they lack the legs to stand on their own in the modern state of the game in a way that isn't just superceded by factions that do everything and more better.
6 points over the NCO Spitfire the silverprimus upped every stat except WIP and PH by one and got big load of skills in trade for NCO and NWI. Not to meniton the better move and the dam output of the weapons. But maybe NWI is very expensive on a 2 wound model. I dare not to take a look on the Boyg ;-) A Yan Hou HRMC with BS-3, TA and Visor1 for ... 55 please?
Frankly I much prefer the Invincibles, more mundane (and maybe needing some update) but they are a professional army with reliable units, Torchlight feels more brash, an army of heroes, but not a professional fighting force if what I say makes sense.
Well written. I'm reminded of a list from here quite awhile back. I forget the specific profile but I vividly remember the discussion that it was one point too expensive. Otherwise it would be utterly fantastic. One point. Enough to from hero to zero. Then there was the usual filler about CB being incompetent and worse. I can't imagine CB is supposed to read that and think power creep wouldn't be accepted. People complain when various promotional figures are made available. They also complain when they can't use them in their favorite flavor. Then people complain there is bloat. On and on. CB is far from perfect but I simply don't understand people are constantly surprised by it.
