Shujae

I had moderate success in using it as a midfield bumper. Not too costly for Aro-duty, you can deploy it in suppressive fire at the start of the game, and have a -12 unit (mimetism, cover, sup. fire) B3 shock/Ap troop in the middle of an advancing route. That could be really something if you deploy it outside his MSV area.

 

I often say that for a unit to be "bad", it needs either 2 things. To be overcosted, or to be strictly worse than something else.

The Shujae is of the later category, it's one of the profile that's the closest thing to a strictly worse version of another one (the Nadhir).

Unless you already maxed out on Nadhir and you somehow still want a "similar" trooper (without what makes the Nadhir good), then I don't see how the Shujae is a justifiable inclusion.

I was really hoping they would be one of the reworked profile with the new release (especially since the new miniature is really cool).

 

It's hard to justify it in a world where DTWs exist. It does look like it wants to go in the midfield in suppression, but then the opponent can just put a shotgun or chain rifle on it for like 1 order.

And, yeah, even if it could do that well, the Nadhir would do it better for the same price. Its hard to understand why they made the profile, it was released at the same time as the Nadhir and it was like, why do we have both of these?

E/M mines are nice, but not nice enough to make the difference without Minelayer.

Also weird that they gave the Nadhir the ugly, generic model, and the Shujae got the model that looks like it would be in Hidden Deployment.

 

I can't figure out why I would ever use the profile.

It's also interesting to see how people's taste in models differ. I prefer the Nadhir and other more grounded models far more than things like the new Shujae.

 

I played with it a few times a few months back, just to try it out. I didn’t have much in the way of expectations. My thoughts on him were, Midfield suppressive fire, objective grabber, close range gun fighter. Every game I used him in he did really good things. I played JSA one of my games and he single handedly took out 2 out of 3 Karakuris. We were playing unmasking and I also killed 2 out of 3 hvts with him. He basically won me the game.

I think it’s often a case of what your play style is. I tried using the Nadhir which gets a lot of praise and I couldn’t win a ftf with him. My opponents dice were just favored in that situation. But I Really like the Shujae.

 

I think the only way the Shujae edges out the Nadhir is that it's a slightly better midfield gunfighter. While I do think the Shujae is worse in most respects I don't ascribe them as being the "same unit". The Nadhir is very much an ARO trick, we bring him to do Noctifer things and then squeeze out any remaining value once the flammenspeer is unloaded.

With the ability to start further up and the extra point of BS I do think the Shujae is better suited to active turn shooting and button pushing but then it's stepping on the toes of things like the Farzan that offer yet more utility. Both crumple to a chain rifle but the Farzan does at least split the difference by still giving you an order while it gets to hide under marker state.

 

Just because the Nadhir can ARO better, doesn't mean it's its only job, it's literally just an extra option it has over the Shujae.

Being hidden deployed is significantly better when you don't have a marker state. The Shujae cannot make use of its forward deployment when you go second or it'll just die.

The Shujae wants (I think?) to be a better gun fighter than the Nadhir, but it has 2 profiles that can't shoot out of template range and one that can with a rifle. It's the same issue as the Jayth in CA. You're going to trade down pretty much all the time.

The Nadhir not only has Hidden Deployment (so it can do good ARO and protect itself when going second), but it's a typed specialist and if you want to have it be active it actually has guns that are relevant for that role (though I still think we have much better active turn options than both of those trooper)

 

I think the SMG/flamenspeer profile has a place in in some lists. If you are going second, deploying him in cover with suppressing fire makes for a tough speed bump. -12 to hit, with a plan B incase he's attacked from outside 24 inches is going to be expensive.

 

I've used the AP Rifle Shujae a few times. It's a serviceable single wound gunfighter and I've had it pick on enemy pieces relying on BS rather than visual mods a few times. But it's far too easy for it to be forced into a position where it's trading a template and dying in a no-roll shootout with a warband or shotgun skirmisher. When it pops off it can be very cool, but a lucky Shujae isn't really that different from a lucky Yara Haddad etc.

 

I like using different, less popular profiles, but haven't field Shujae still. I agree with @Diphoration that even though they're not the same Nadhir and Shujae, being released in the same time, share to many similarities to be treated as units totally different. And I definitely prefered having Nadhir than Shujae.
Maybe with the new, shiny miniature I will change that. It's good time to test new minis with all the BlackWind freshness incoming ;)


PozdRawiam / Greetings

 

Its interesting cause it sounds like the shujae is supposed to do what i wished the hortlak did since its release (besides the sniper profiles). With as minimal changes as possible, how do yall think the shujae can be fixed? Maybe an x-visor can fix some range band issues so its at least not disadvantageous to engage outside of template ranges whilst not being that adventageous either.

 

This is admittedly not a minimal change perse but I think something like Minelayer on the profiles with deployables would go a long way towards shoring up the going second problem, essentially some way to guarantee value off your ultra fragile skirmisher. Cost would need to go up of course but I would personally trade -6 mimetism for -3 if I could get a free mine with it.

EDIT: I realized I pretty much just described the Farzan again XD

 

Does the terrain rule come into play at all now? I am getting back into infinity and I see the Shujae has total terrain, if it does give an inch of movement could be nice to do missions as a specialist.

 

Actually... that's a good point.
Yes, a few recent ITS seasons had quite some terrain zones and the like. Getting models through these is a hassle.
Though I heard some people agree to effectively leave these out (by dropping them on the table somewhere totally out of the way).

 

Yeah, I blinked at that one. You go from a well equipped trooper/leader/trainer to five years in the past when a boarding shotgun was all that was needed.

 

The only time when I brought a Shujae to do a job better than any of her camo infiltrator counterpoints was for Supplies.

Mim -6 was good to hold the box, since you can't be in camo state anyway while holding it. That, plus a little bit more survivability with better Dodge, ARM 1, and a weapon option to FTF contest long range attacks were factors I appreciated.

Going to try bringing her for Acquisition. One of those units where you forward deploy somewhere inconvenient for the opponent to remove, and then late game go up to press and control a side point. Ideally when most warbands and chaff units have been removed. Such a scenario should better suit her strength of improved survivability against the typical Haqq specialist options.