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Fireteam cancellation moment

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Qwerinaga, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. Yes is not listed because the Fireteam rules postdate the creation of the Rulebook.
    On the other hand, in none of the explanations of use of the Command Token is it specified when it is for Tactical Use:
    (p. 110) Additionally, when using Engineer (or other Special Skills or piece of Equipment that specifically say so) to repair a Trooper with G: Remote Presence, you may expend Command Tokens to reroll a failed WIP Roll.
    (p. 115) This exclusive Irregular Order cannot be transformed into a Regular Order by the use of a Command Token or other rule or Skill, unless they specifically state otherwise.
    (p. 118) When using the Doctor Special Skill (or other Special Skills or pieces of Equipment that explicitly say so) to heal a Trooper with a Cube, you can expend Command Tokens to re-roll a failed WIP Roll.
    (p.130) To declare a Coordinated Order, players must spend 1 Command Token, and 1 Regular Order from the Order Pool of the participating Troopers’ Combat Group.
    etc. etc.​

    But it is always specified either that it is for Executive Use or that it is for use in the Tactical Phase or both:
    (p. 66) In the owning player’s Tactical Phase, during the Executive Use of Command Tokens step, the player can automatically cancel this State by spending 1 Command Token.
    (p. 113) During the Tactical Phase of the Active Turn, in the Executive Use of Command Tokens step, the user of this Special Skill may move a Trooper to a different Combat Group without expending a Command Token.
    etc. etc.​

    It seems logical to think that if its use is not specified it is for a Tactical Use, of course it can also be thought that since no Use is specified... then a Command Token can never be used for it (although at least to me, doesn't seem logical at all).

    The argument that it can be used whenever you want, even in the Opponent's Turn, I would like to know what part of the rulebook it is based on to get to it.
     
    #21 Pettynyt Pelaaja, Aug 11, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2022
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The fireteam rules are in the Annex, page 4.

    During the game, spend a Command Token and place a Fireteam Leader
    Token (FIRETEAM LEADER) beside one of the Troopers that meet the
    instructions of the Fireteams Chart of their Army.​

    Keep in mind the Important box from Command Token rules

    IMPORTANT
    Players cannot expend Command Tokens during their Reactive Turn.​
     
  3. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Well yes and no. The same poorly written rule has was used in N3, so the rule actually predates N4 rulebook.

    Except Strategic Use, in which you can remove two orders from enemy order pool during enemy tactical phase.

    Are you sure fireteam creation isn't a same kind of exception?​
     
    #23 Tanan, Aug 11, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The pages I checked don't have any useable exception. If you want to make the argument that the rule doesn't apply to Fireteam Creation, I suggest you find the rule and present it.
     
  5. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    That rule about removing two orders has to be an exception, or it’s pointless because it wouldn’t do anything ever.
    The rule for spending a token to make a Fireteam doesn’t specify anything about when you can spend the token, so there’s nothing in it to conflict with rules saying when you can and can’t spend tokens. In other words, there’s nothing in that rule to be exceptional about.
     
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    As an aside, don't form Fireteams after an Order is spent.

    Nothing in the rules explicitly prohibits it, but it just can't work (it's basically un-resolvable). And the fact that you can't voluntarily cancel fireteams after an Order has been spent makes it highly unlikely this is at all intended to be permitted anyway.
     
    Robock and solkan like this.
  7. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Right? That was my idea too as it says To do so, the player must indicate so before the Order is spent by any of the players.
    As soon as any order is spent by any player, then it is too late to indicate cancelling a fireteam before the Order is spent by any players.

    or, more likely, To do so, the player must indicate so before the Order is spent by any of the players. means to not cancel fireteam in the middle of an Order. And does not mean you can't form/unform fireteam during the top of turn 1 "Start of Turn" step.
     
    chromedog likes this.
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