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Operation: Blackwind

Discussion in 'News' started by Brokenwolf, Jun 1, 2022.

  1. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    hahaha okay, lets see, Achilles CC 24 with MA 4, Bluecoat CC 20 with CC weapon -6 and NBW, at the end, Achilles is rolling for 18 and bluecoat rolling for 20, and you are telling me that is a 65%-19%? hahahaha okay, maybe one of us likes math, but that one isnt you xd
     
  2. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    "This trooper, who's entire purpose is to counter CC Specialists can counter your CC Specialist. Therefore, your CC Specialist isn't a CC Specialist."

    Yeah, okay.
     
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  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Ok but it's going to be confusing because as far as I know it's the only one to have something like this. When I first saw it, it made me think right away that anyone trying to dodge her attacks were at -6. But you all are saying they are -6 when she does the dodge. Both are modifiers for the opposing player as a minus should be.
     
  4. Iskandar

    Iskandar Well-Known Member

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    You think it's the only trooper in the game with a negative MOD on a skill? Have you looked in Army during N4? The rules on MODs also clearly explain the mechanic as well you just need to read them
     
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  5. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
    Warcor

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    You never fail to crack me up.
    Cheers!

    (a like wasn't enough praise)
     
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  6. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    *sigh*.

    - You posit Thyreos as a threat to Achilles
    - I point out that the odds are 65% Achilles, 19% Thyreos
    - You describe those odds as "more or less a 50% chance," then move on to ask about the Bluecoat
    - I question your characterization of 65%-19% as "more or less a 50% chance," then answer your question about the Bluecoat (39%-15%, also nowhere near 50%).
    - You... now think that 65%-19% refers to the Bluecoat odds?

    I'm done. I enjoy checking the odds on various matchups and thinking about how they can inform strategy. I don't enjoy repeating myself or being repeatedly misquoted. So, whatever, you keep on thinking Achilles is something less than one of the best CC units in the game, if you like. All the numbers are there for you to check your hypothesis if you care to.
     
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  7. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    The Morat Rindak specifically has both Dodge (+3) and Dodge (-3), which was discussed when he came out in the spring.
     
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  8. To help you avoid confusion, keep in mind that modifiers always apply when the trooper that has them in their profile uses the skill that has the modifier.
    If they are positive, the troop itself has that positive MOD when using the skill.
    If they are negative, all enemy troops that make a face-to-face roll with the trooper using the skill have that negative MOD (regardless of what skill the enemy troops are using).​
     
  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Um yes. I've been playing since the game first came out. But this is the first time I've seen a Dodge with a minus. I've only seen dodge with a plus.

    Ok. Thank you. Since I don't play Morats I didn't pay much attention to that. So this is the second time there's a Dodge with a minus. So where in the depths of the internet is there an explanation of it?
     
  10. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    https://infinitythewiki.com/Rolls#Modifiers_.28MOD.29

    It's the same reason Mimetism (-3) works, or CC(-3) works.
     
  11. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    I asked you about the maths behind a fight between achilles and bluecoat, and you inmediately told me that, what do you expect me to think?? anyways, if for you achilles is a CC beast.. well, congratulations, enjoy it the best you can, but when your achilles(if you really play him, which i really think you dont ) get destroyed/canceled by a one of those trooper, whos entire purpose is to counter your CC specialist, thats cheaper as hell, dont get so surprised. specially when almost all armies has plenty enough

    Anyways, against thyreos you are wrong, i never talked about the chance to kill, to wound etc, i just said the chance for the ftf roll, and the truth is , achilles is rolling for 21 and thryeos for 20, that is almost a 50% 50% and you know it. Yes later, you have to wound and kill etc,but I dont need that information.If i know i need to waste 2 or 3 ordes to move achilles on CC with thyreos for a 21s roll vs a 20s roll im not going to do it! thats not the way to play infinity, atleast not how i understand infinity

    Now, achiiles is good in CC?of course! but its the apex in the human sphere? hell no xd, you need something more than a CC24 and MA4 to be the top dog of the CC
     
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes I already know that. But in my example the modifier worked for both. The Question I guess, is who is doing the Dodge? Her or the opponent? Most of the time it would be the figure. There's a few where it's the opponent. By what was said, I'll take it that when she does a dodge, every one is -6 against her. It's not a bad rule just weird at first because the norm was a plus. Unlike say mimetisim -6, it can't be negated by MSV. But it's restricted in that she must do a dodge.
     
  13. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Yes, it is an apex. This doesn't mean that there can't be any counters to it. If you look closely you'll see that units which can counter Achilles' CC prowess are few and far between, and none of them has his other advantages.

    And that's the bottom line: he's a master of all trades: speed, durability, firepower, CC. Are there faster units? sure, but they're either larger or more fragile. Are there more durable ones? Sure, but nothing in this size can compare. Firepower? Even Atalanta can outshoot him, but she's a glass cannon. In CC Oniwaban was just as good as Achilles for ages, but folds like a wet paper towel. That's the thing. A precious few units are better than Achilles in one of the aspects, but not in two of them. You know what's the closest one? Sphinx. A bit faster, a bit more durable (better Mimetism), shoots just as hard. Would still get stomped by Achilles in CC, S6 vs S2, and costs almost 30 pts more.
     
  14. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    Ajax and Achilles are both in exactly the same boat against Thyreos. 21 vs 20 CC, unless he can berserk.
     
  15. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    And i agree with all you said! Achilles is a very strong unit, being very good at everything!


    But the apex of CC, the best specialist of CC in the whole game? No way
     
  16. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t he just shoot the cheap CC counter specialist Indiana Jones style?
     
  17. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    Yes as the CC specialist moves in. That CC specialist would have to get the drop on Achilles somehow to escape the shot. Shot would likely be at +3 too unless the CC counter specialist has some ability that lowers the efficacy of Achilles shot. With a +1 damage AP spitfire. Should do the trick. I do miss the multi rifle though, a DA round to the head in aro is always funny.
     
  18. Fed4ykin

    Fed4ykin Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe he isn't supposed to be the Best in CC. He still is one of the Best in CC and can reliably outshoot most Things that could be dangerous to him in CC. So he is an apex predator on the table. And infinity is mostly a Shooting game and close combat is almost never the Best solution in the game.
    And I say that as a JSA Player. The Thing with JSA and steel is you Do have CC as a reliable Tool because there is a broad proliferation of CC specialists in both of the factions I do agree with you that NBW is a stupid rule that got too common in recent Releases and has no Business to be on so many troops or should be a lot more expensive.
     
    #378 Fed4ykin, Aug 5, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
    El tito Zylito likes this.
  19. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    Exactly.

    So if everytime we see a moron with NBW we start shooting at it.. where is the CC beast?

    that leave us with achilles being good at bullying some fusiliers on CC, anything more dedicated to CC and you are going to shoot at it, yeah sure, what an Apex CC Master.
     
  20. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    Apex predator on the table? I can agreee with that
     
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