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More Speculations: Sunduqbut

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Cannon Fodder, Jul 27, 2022.

  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Huh. The profile screenshot earlier in this thread is missing the troop type entirely. I'd be very surprised if it doesn't turn out to be a REM in the end. That said, I never noticed that Karakuri are HI and that surprises me just as much. So, who knows!

    I'd say "I guess we find out on Thursday," but then bug reports will need to work themselves through Army before we know anything for sure.
     
  2. Muad'dib

    Muad'dib Well-Known Member

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    Any advice on how to make the Azrail work? Whenever I bring it, it ends up hacked to obsolescence or murdered by surprise sniper/ msv+smoke tricks. The Fasid is more survivable thanks to veteran and sixth sense. The sunduqbut can probably stay safe while camoed, but I don't know how you keep it alive once it's revealed.
     
  3. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Sunduckbutt is shown as HI in the preview, just hard to see as white text on grey background
    Screenshot_20220731-145034_Gallery.jpg
     
  4. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Ok, had a game yesterday vs OSS in Supremacy. The table setup meant I wanted longer range guns, so I was using the list with more firepower in my post on the past page. They won the roll with a WIP15 lieutenant and took first with a tight almost-single-combat group list built around a full dakini core, an Asura heading a haris, and Andromeda.

    Faced with the probable threat of Andromeda, I reserved the Sunduq and Libertos. Sure enough, along she comes, and in response I'm able to drop five camo markers as my reserves. This obviously telegraphs what I have (there's literally only two units a combination of 3x markers with no mimetism and 2x markers with mimetism can be) but I use the Sunduq's decoy to lock andromeda in a corner with one mine watching her and another mine watching the path into my DZ, plus eyes on from the Libertos and Sunduq itself (at >8" so I'm in good viral range).

    This would ultimately be the total contribution box-bot made to the game, but it was a good one. The Asura team moved forward to relieve andromeda and unpick the camo, which she did handily thanks to MSV3, but it meant the sum total of kills in the OSS first turn were a decoy marker, two mines and a libertos. I took the Asura team down the next turn with a combination of of chunky boy Azrai'l firepower and a Barid KHD (and a lot of orders, Asura go down slow) and got Andromeda with a Kum rider and some reasonably good dice.

    This pretty much locked my opponent out of the game and although we played on for a touch it was pretty clear how things would go so we packed it up and made coffee.

    Overall an ok first outing making good use of the marker spam the minelayer Sunduq brings, but what I really want to test is how good B4 DAM14 viral fire is, so that's still on the future list.

    The Azra'il is not an ARO piece. It should never be standing with its arse in the wind getting shot through smoke or frankly by any enemy in their active turn except maybe late in the game if everything that might threaten it is down. Put it prone on a rooftop with a doctor nearby and have it stand up to suppress enemy heavy elements or TAGs that try to stop your pieces from moving freely.
     
  5. Muad'dib

    Muad'dib Well-Known Member

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    I find that whenever I try something like this (prone roof deployment), I end up on the receiving end of a pitcher + oblivion, which is also what I fear will happen to the sunduqbut once it is revealed. Do your Barids provide enough discouragement to prevent a hacker push of that type?
     
  6. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    So purely as a local experience, offensive pitcher play is very common but it's almost never used to perform a nonlethal attack. Priority #1 is killing enemy hackers, priority #2 is missile play, priority #3 is just getting the pitcher there so it's a problem for you to now deal with. However, if they are oblivioning your Azrail... ok, it's still alive, then you stand it up and either take a good shot at something or just stand and reset to become an ARO piece (and make the Azrail your opponent's problem again). Standing up a model that isn't good at AROing pre-emptively to try to hold back enemy pitcher troopers just lets them shortcut to the bit where your HI firepower element is dead rather than isolated but still a threat.

    Beyond that, I tend to try to keep my barids relatively safe in reactive turn (because of the killer hacking noted above) but elements like Libertos and now the Daylami + Sunduq act as a screen to prevent easy placement of pitchers in range of the deployment zone. With forward deployment and infiltration you can be watching the positions that most pitcher units (short of the odd X-Visor pitchers) will want to occupy to start bracketing your deployment zone.

    Finally, if your opponent is leaning heavily enough on hacking that they want to oblivion your HI on the first turn rather than coming after you with offensive elements, they probably have a list that's very susceptible to getting driven over the top of by pieces like Kum and Libertos.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    There's an FAQ Errata that fixes it for the general case, yes.
    The Yan Huo fix pre-dates the errata and involves angled brackets instead of rounded brackets.
     
  8. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    I'm really glad to read they are a variety of opinions around the new profiles we saw until now, in this case the "Heavy-Box". In moment I have the feeling it is too expensive to bring something useful for "regular lists". In my mind it could add something useful in vainilla and ramah, but not for hassasin the "sectorial" where they are born... Next 4.August a lot of things should change in order to make this profile something "playable" in Hassasin. But those are my opinions right now comming from a non tested play, only "theory", so I will not discard the "Heavy Box" so soon. I will at least try it. I'm one of those which finally have found some use for the Boyg,so... I hope I will be capable of doing the same for this "guy".
     
  9. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I love the azrail in QK. A haris with the Rafiq & Sekban Doc (NCO) is now my main attack unit. I usually pair that with a Ghulam defensive core. The Rafiq adds a repeater for defense. You can also try Leila in the haris, but I often have her in a different fireteam.

    The Hafza HRL is usually hidden as a Ghulam Rifle, with a "sloppy" placement that leaves it open to a long ranged attack from an odd angle. It's bait for my opponent to waste orders getting the angle, and then revealing with a 2B Template aro that often hits another model in a fireteam behind it. Last week my opponent (vanilla Pano) had a Bulletteer Spitfire try and get it from 28ish inches. It was Duoed with a Motorized Bounty Bunter which got splashed.

    Unmasking v2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]2
    MOBILE BRIGADA (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 39)
    AZRA'IL Feuerbach(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 44)
    SEKBAN (Doctor [+3]) Boarding Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)
    BEASTHUNTERS (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage, Forward Deployment [+8"]) Heavy Flamethrower, Tactical Bow, AP Mines / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    BASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
    GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
    HAFZA Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 17)
    GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    GHULAM (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    FIDDLER (Climbing Plus) Contender(+1B), Drop Bears, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 42)
    [​IMG] 2X JACKBOT Vulkan Shotgun / . (0 | 14)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  10. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    From the bug report thread, Sunduqbut confirmed to not have Explode.

    Makes the midfield viral rifle guys less interesting, but the neuro feurbach more interesting - ARM 4, Str 2, Remote Presence, and an engineer nearby...
     
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  11. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Attached Files:

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  12. nintendofilo

    nintendofilo New Member

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    Wow that Shujae I'm only seeing a part of it and I already love it, holding CC weapon? Also liking the muyib as well... And the bot.... Definitely getting the beyond box
     
  13. infyrana

    infyrana Well-Known Member

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    I wish they would include the box version of the Sunduqbut.
     
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  14. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    The Shujae looks like it could make a good Fiday.

    The Muyib looks like it could make a good Asawira.

    The Sunduqbut looks like it could make a great remote... too bad it's apparently a heavy infantry?!?
     
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  15. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    yeah the line between REM and HI is blurry.
    As any resurrected units are now in a L-Host every human that dies once in their lifetime should be REM, right ? But they keep being LI/MI/HI/WB/SK.

    Anyway, when you build a non L-Host S2 body from scratch, what makes the difference between a HI (Hollow Men, Karakuri), and a REM (Dakini, Garuda) ? I mean I understand for REM shaped units (S3/S4) they are REMs, but when you make humanoid S2 entities, what distinguish between HI classification and REM classification ? I have no idea.

    But it does impact the game, as while they are both hackable; EVO can only buff REM.
     
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  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Ok, having had two games with the minelayer Sunduq I now want to try the neurocinetics one. I'm going to stick with the viral profile for now because I want to keep pushing the ability to weave different camo markers together. This list is super experimental and forces the Bokhtar to fit, as well as the new Lasiq that I have somewhat high hopes for. I don't expect the Bokhtar to quite justify the expense, but will see how both do.

    Unnecessary and Reactionary
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    BOKHTAR (Parachutist, NCO) Red Fury / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 56)
    ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14)
    LASIQ (BS Attack [+1 Dam]) Marksman Rifle(Viral) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 25)
    BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    KUM Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    KUM Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    SUNDUQBUT (Neurocinetics [+1B]) Viral Rifle, Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 49)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 8)
    FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  17. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    Well Lhosts aren't being controlled by remote presence or a LAI. It's the cube that been inserted into them which downloads the personality into that Lhost's brain.

    There's always been remote presence units outside of remotes and TAGs. The Karakuri and the Su-Jian being some of the oldest examples. What differentiates them from remotes isn't clear cut or well explained in the setting. For rules in the game that govern unit type it very much did have an impact like when remotes couldn't go prone (back in the N2/N3 days) and now with EVO with its supportware.
     
  18. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    The greatest proxy box!
     
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  19. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Now that the Cratebot doesn't have explode, I want to make the Neuro Feuerbach work. But it's soo many points! Also, SWC. I had to cut my GML which makes nervous, but I came up with this:

    Boxes
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]2
    SALADIN (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14)
    DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 8)
    ZULEYKA Light Flamethrower(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Breaker Pistol(+2B), EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    SUNDUQBUT (Neurocinetics) Feuerbach / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 52)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    NASMAT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    SHIHAB REMOTE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24)
    MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    This is for Supplies. It feels kind of sparse, but I'm not used to playing a a big ARO piece, so I assume it always leaves one feeling a little hollowed out on the active turn units. On my turn I'm just playing with an Asawira and an HMG bot, but maybe it's ok if my opponent spends their whole turn dealing with the B2 death dispenser?
     
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  20. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    I can’t tell, but I hope the Shujae is outfitted with a rifle.
     
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