@Teslarod Seems like an oversight in the rules, though, with that ambiguity. Would be good for an FAQ.
Both Markers and Troopers prevent re-camo, so no that's not it. Veto? Really? You don't have the right O you do not have the right. Are you trying to counter argue that the rules seem to allow LOF to be drawn through Holoechos or are you trying to counter argue an the opinion that it seems the rules intended something else? You did read what I wrote, no? You are also aware that an opinion is not an argument? -- Keep in mind that just because a rule doesn't say "unless specified otherwise" doesn't mean another rule is not allowed to make an exception anyway. The rules have a bunch of cases where it establishes how things work and then allow a skill or state to work differently, not bothering to write that there may be exceptions. BS Attack just states you can shoot at "enemies" it doesn't bother stating that there can be exceptions such as Camouflaged state. Command Tokens ability to reduce the order pool is not written as if allowing a skill to alter how many tokens are reduced, but Counterintelligence still allows you to reduce the orders removed to one. The rules for taking damage doesn't say there are other states than unconscious a trooper can end up in, but both Shasvasti does that anyway. Dead state does not say "Unless otherwise specified, a Trooper loses all the points of his Wounds/STR Attribute, and takes one or more extra points of damage." but Remote Presences still works*. ARO rules state that you must choose the active trooper as the target, even bolds this message, but we still allow smoke to target the ground because we consider that an ammunition saying it doesn't need a trooper as target to have higher priority than a rule in bold saying it does. What I mean with that it "seems" like the rule intended otherwise is that it seems like the rules writer intended us to consider the Holoecho to be a miniature (from the notion that a "real" Trooper is one that is not in a Marker state) for a given range of purposes, yet failed to accurately write the rule to say this. If the Holoecho is treated as a miniature, even if it is a marker, it wouldn't be affected by the "does not block LOF" rule because being treated as a miniature we would use the rules for miniatures temporarily. * It works, let's not open up that argument again
I'm sorry, but are there exception to "Markers do not obstruct LoF" in the game? Nope. Not even Holoecho should.
Reading threads like this one leads me to wonder if we're all playing the same game in the end. If the same rule can be interpreted in diametrically opposite ways depending on where it is played... something is wrong somewhere.
Uhm, that's what I said. No exception mentioned in the wording for Marker LOF. No exception mentioned in Holoecho. Why would Holoecho block LOF?
I read the rule as holoecho is a marker (you can draw line of sight through it if you want, all 3), and the only exception would be non-360° LoF. As far as I understand it, the lines about "trooper" are for perimeterweapons and aro declaration against one or more of the echos.
Maybe are we having a "N2/N3 rule understanding instead N4? Back in the past was explicit the "holoechos blocked the LoF", it could be that we understand the "blocking LoF" because that?
The text in N3, page 85 of Human Sphere, and N4, page 122 (in both cases the book in Spanish, I don't have the HSN3 in English), is exactly the same in terms of being a real troop... the confusion is not coming from that side. Edit and add: N3 N4
I want to say that the understanding that Holoechos block LOF during N3 is based off of a community read. I'm fairly sure I've seen playtesters (that is to say IJW) answer similar question and it was basically never asked again. However, back then the skill was Holoprojector L2, which meant you always got the Holomask with it more or less. Most likely, this was never addressed because it was a question that never sparked attention or controversy.
There was a great discussion about this case when the rule came out (at least in the Spanish forum) and the solution (provided by Interruptor, although unfortunately it was lost with the change of forum) is identical to the current case (since the texts are almost the same in both editions). What does the Holoecho State say? (p. 122) Holoechoes are considered real Troopers in regard to providing AROs, checking LoF, and activating Enemy weapons or pieces of Equipment (Mines, CrazyKoalas, etc.). What does the LoF rule say? (p. 8) LoF can be drawn from the Trooper to any point in the target's volume without being obstructed by any pieces of scenery or Troopers (friendly or enemy). In both cases the word «Troopers» is used; The bottom line is that Holoechos are «Troopers» and «Troopers» block LoF. Edit and Add: Holoechos are the exception to the general rule that Markers don't obstruct LoF, just because there are no other exceptions doesn't mean this isn't a valid exception.
