The Confused Deployment rule for Biotechvore replaces the Combat Jump roll with a PH-3 roll. It also says it keeps all mods from the other roll, but the Yuan Yuan's Combat Jump (PH=11) doesn't seem to be a MOD. This would imply that they would still jump in on an 11 (PH-3) in Biotechvore, as they do in most other missions. Am I interpreting this right?
Looking under Modifiers is says this: https://infinitythewiki.com/Rolls#Modifiers_.28MOD.29 The value of an Attribute, <snip> in round brackets next to a Special Skill, Weapon, or Equipment will be applied only when using that Special Skill, Weapon or Equipment I see two ways this can be interpreted 1) As this is in the "Modifiers (MODs)" section it is a modifier and will stack with Confused Deployment, so the success value will be 8 2) The Yuan Yuan's PH Attribute is treated as 11 when using the Combat Jump Skill, so a roll at PH-3 would be 8 I don't see a way of interpreting a round bracket number as a fixed value that cannot be further modified.
i agree with the 2nd interpretation. Also it cannot be that you mod -3 PH (from PH 14 to 11) and then apply the fixed attribute (PH=11). As MOD are applied to Attributes, you must know your Attribute first (which is PH=11 for a CJ), and then apply +/- MODs, bringing it to 8.
Thread with a similar question regarding netrods and confused deployment here - https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/confused-deployment.38609/ which is basically what's getting asked here. Relevant bit
1) Do you have a ROLL for deployment skill that let you deploy out of DZ? NOPE: You roll on PH-3 YES: go on. 2) Do you have to roll on PH? NOPE: You will roll on PH-3 YES: go on. 3) Does your roll have any additional modifier? NOPE: You will roll on PH-3 YES: You will roll on PH-3 adding any other modifier. If you have a fixed value skill like PH(11), then you'll roll on a 8. Disclaimer: i could have got something wrong, I have a fever right now (probably due to frigging covid)
This is where CB and language get into trouble. So Biotechvore says: "Confused Deployment. Any Trooper using a Special Skill to deploy outside their Deployment Zone must make a PH-3 Roll. Special Skills, pieces of Equipment, or rules that apply any PH or WIP Roll to deploy must replace it with this roll. Any MOD applied to the Roll by a Special Skill, piece of Equipment, or rule will be added to this roll." My reading would be you make a PH roll at -3. Then any Special Skills, pieces of Equipment, or rules that apply any PH or WIP roll to deploy must replace it with this roll. The key being MUST REPLACE. Then any MOD applied to the Roll by a Special Skill, piece of Equipment, or rule will be added to this roll. Combat Jump (PH=11) isn't a mod (well, it is, but it isn't), it is a Special Skill that applies a PH or WIP roll, and must be replaced with the PH -3 roll.
This is literally the netrod discussion that was answered earlier in n4 to have it so the netrods are not rolling at ph 0-3
Since I'm getting a 502 Bad Gateway to the wiki atm, reference is page 28. Here's the offending rule. IMPORTANT Whenever a rule mentions the value of an Attribute, consider it to mean the Success Value, obtained after applying all MODs. I think the rules text itself explains what I think Hecaton is getting at, but it is a problematic rule for the impact it has on other things (f.ex. TAGs having a relatively low Dodge chance, but a Dodge chance that can't be influenced by Surprise Attack or Martial Arts or for that matter Liu Xing being unable to improve their Combat Jump chances through EVO Device use)
That part refers to another aspect of the game. Whenever you have, for example, to roll for a BS Attack, you have to roll against the BS attribute after all the modifiers.
Eh... I can see how you can arrive at a similar interpretation to that, though mostly because the sentence has to be reconstructed to be read at all. If that's all the box tries to say, then well... the rule one paragraph up (Successful Roll) says it better. Be mindful, though, that BS Attack isn't a good example because BS Attack doesn't mention the value of an Attribute, it only mentions the Attribute itself.
The only Attributes that box is applied to are WIP and PH, at the moment. The box refers to the value of an attribute when you need to roll against that value, nothing more.
Sorry you lost me again. Where does it say that "whenever" does not mean whenever, and the context here is basic rules for making rolls with modifiers, of which the same section of rules mentions "value of an attribute" can be written inside round brackets next to equipment. I think what you are referring to are Throwing and Technical Weapons, neither of those mentions the value of an attribute but rather mentions the attributes without values, nor are they written or referenced on this page.
@ijw 's answer linked above appears to be definitive. A trooper with the Combat Jump (PH=x) Skill who deploys outside the DZ in Confused Deployment must make an x-3 roll. Not sure what anyone is still debating given that answer, unless you've moved on to other questions than the OP, such as how TAG dodging works or whether a Liu Xing can benefit from an EVO? The OP question appears to be definitively answered.
It appears that IJW was wrong, though, because the roll you make for confused deployment is not a Combat Jump roll, but rather a PH-3 roll.
My mistake. I assumed you posted the question because you wanted to know the answer, not to continue your bizarre crusade to overthrow Infinity Rules Staff. I should have known better .
I think the point is that the rules given by IJW contradict the rules as written. It's an issue and CB needs to get better about how they write their rules, especially in the realm of consistency.
Everyone has for something. We are not CA Avatars. But that answer, as widely shared multiple times, has been previously discussed with CB so it must be considered official. .. As long as CB doesn't change their mind... And normally that is when IJW is wrong...
