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Tactics list

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by QueensGambit, Jun 26, 2022.

  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    <Placeholder>
     
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  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    So it occurred to me that there are a lot of Infinity tactics that I, in theory, know, but never remember in-game. I would be a significantly better player if I actually did the things I supposedly know I'm supposed to do.

    On the assumption that others may be in the same boat, I propose to compile a list of Infinity tactics that we can review from time to time to hopefully keep them in mind more effectively. It will be aimed at Haqq players although few tactics will be specific to Haqq.

    To start, I offer the one that prompted me to start this project in the first place: body-blocking ladders. If you place a trooper prone at the top of a ladder, you prevent your opponent from coming up the ladder, and they can't engage the blocking trooper in CC because there isn't room for them to get into silhouette contact. If the blocking trooper has a DTW, it can trade against anyone who tries to get past it by shooting it. Diggers should be particularly good for this because in addition to a template, they have two wounds and good armor, so they have good odds of surviving while still templating the attacker who's trying to climb the ladder.

    It came up recently in a mirror match against @Methuselah who very effectively blocked my Fidays from getting at his key units hiding on roofs, while I totally failed to block his Fiday in the same way.

    Post your Infinity tactics in this thread, and I'll also keep posting more as I think of them. Once we've accumulated a few, I'll start a list in the first post.
     
  3. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Here are some obvious ones cribbed from the out-of-date Hassassins tactica and elaborated:

    Pitcher hacking - throw a pitcher, then Oblivion, Trinity, or Spotlight-GML your target. Can also be done by moving up a Fanous or Rafiq repeater instead of throwing a pitcher.

    Coordinated hack - to get a Fanous/Rafiq into range of an enemy hacker, put the bot and one or more hackers in a coordinated order. Move the repeater bot into range of the enemy with your first short skill. If they Oblivion the repeater, they suffer unopposed hacking from your hacker(s).

    GML camo - use the Rafiq to Sensor a camo token, then use its repeater to Spotlight-GML it.

    Shotgun fork - needs no introduction, but included for completeness. If your unit is in marker state, start with a pointless Discover to reveal your attacker so that the opponent can't Delay and avoid the fork.

    Cautious Movement - don't forget it exists! Particularly useful on 6-2 units like Asawira and Mukhtar.
     
  4. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    A useful counter-strategy if the ladder terminates at a rampart or low wall behind which the blocking model is hiding (rather than at a flat floor) is to exit the ladder in a vaulting position (not in CC with the enemy as you are not in silhouette contact) and then move laterally, still vaulting, until you can reach a spot to end movement.
     
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  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Getting unexpected angles: A lot of buildings have parapets around the roof. A unit on the roof can vault onto the parapet to get a bit of extra height, potentially gaining LoF to a unit the opponent thought was safe behind another parapet on a nearby roof.

    Corollary: When hiding your units, watch for angles your opponent can get by vaulting onto parapets.
     
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  6. BoxedSnake

    BoxedSnake Well-Known Member

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    Move+Dodge: dodge do not generate ARO, so you can move out of LoF and then jump in front of the enemy without being shot.
     
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  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    There's lots of small and situational tricks you can pull. Some generally useful, some only relevant once in a blue moon.

    Reactivating Holoechoes to move a Trooper back into LOF (mostly used with SF beforehand).

    Boxing in a IMP Marker with 2 model reserve pieces gainst a wall (i.e. 2 Helperbots, Minelayer + Mine, any sort of G-Synch) or 3 Model reserve pieces in the open (Pupniks, Puppetactica, Strelok Minelayer).

    Hugging enemy IMP Markers in your Active Turn before Discover to limit their options when revealed by triggering Engaged.

    Deploying (Minelayer) Mines with an enemy Camo Marker in their Trigger Area by abusing a eligible second target like a Moran in the Mine's Trigger Area.
    - only works for Place Deployable, NOT Minelayer

    Moving/Dodging your own Trooper into CC with a CC-incompetent enemy end of turn to protect yourself from geting shot.
    Very situational since the other guy can't declare/succeed a Dodge and you'll have to tank a hit, and it can backfire if there's a CC competent enemy nearby, but if done right a valueable option to secure your own pieces while also restraining expensive Skirmishers and the like during their turn. Can be very valueable to protect something as massive and durable as Maggie.

    Using Coordinated Orders to get rid of high performance ARO pieces like Bolt Snipers, even with run of the mill troops. Ofc Coordinated Blitzen/ML/PZF are the best candidates, but any B3 Spearhead Rifle still retains B2 and is a threat to 1W troopers with a bad Dodge.

    Move-Move with a Camo Marker into Total Cover to cover ground with zero risk outside of Mines. Then have the option to simply recamo and do it again. Very useful to bridge large gaps between buildings and last minute Objective runs.

    Use HD AROs to not just cover a corridor but also lay traps for AD/Parachutist.

    Unmount Bikes/TAG Pilots around corners in Total Cover to avoid LOF AROs being triggered.
     
    #7 Teslarod, Jun 28, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
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  8. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    This is not possible, the restriction on Minelayer cannot be lifted if there is a valid target.

    A cool thing I like to do with Minelayer is put the mine behind a small box in a way that the enemy's camouflaged trooper isn't in the Trigger Area at deployment (but still in ZoC) in a way that any of their movement will make them enter the Trigger Area and eat the mine.
     
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  9. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Sadly this isn't allowed because Minelayer don't,it has nothing to do with other targets. If you use minelayer the deployable weapon can't affect any camo marker. Place a mine is a different rule than minelayer.

    ... from minelayer

    There can be no enemy Camouflage Markers inside the Trigger Area of the Deployable Weapon or piece of Equipment when it is deployed, or inside the Zone of Control for Perimeter Weapons.



    Coming back to the topic...

    -Using Holoechos to block the LoF of that "ARO piece". Usually ARO pieces choose to wait instead to shoot on the "holos" if they can see at least two, so, you can do move+move to place that 3 holos making an extra wall in order to get the "ARO's" LoF blocked . I did sometimes with Yasbir to allow my troups to move "safely". Long LoF on roof usually can be blocked for small objecs (3 holos are 3 inches Wide and almost 2 High). You can do it too with "bashi bazouks".

    -If you are playing some AD profile you can "spare this as your last miniature" and when you have to put on the ground, deploy nothing. This will made your rival think for a Hidden Deployment instead a AD. Probably will allow better places to drop the AD troup on the second turn. This will work only a couple of times but... if you don't abuse you even could create some "paranoia" (switching lists one with AD other with HD).

    -If you are triying to go up or dow a building a little lower than your MOV it will be better to do "jump", instead "climb". Keeping this in mind could allow you to spare some orders.
     
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  10. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Ah crap, not sure if that was different in N3, but this:
    > A Mine cannot be placed if there is an enemy Camouflage Marker inside its Trigger Area. This restriction does not apply if there is a valid, non-camouflaged enemy inside the Trigger Area, or if an Intuitive Attack was declared.

    Now only applies to Mines deployed with place Deployable and not when placed with Minelayer. Was under the impression Minelayer invokes Place Deployable, but it doesn't.

    Note that Holoechoes use the Trooper's Model and two Holoechoes Markers as Holoechoes and is a Marker State. All three Holoechoes from Holoecho State are Markers (the State itself has the Label) and do not block LOF.
    > While in Holoecho State, the Trooper is represented by three Holoechoes: the Holoecho 1 Marker, the Holoecho 2 Marker and the actual Model.

    But, if you also have Holomask to combine it with it does replace the Holoechoes with Models, which do block LOF.
    upload_2022-6-28_17-10-8.png
    Due to wording one could argue the Model of the trooper used as an Holoecho is still a Model even when used as a Holoecho and always blocks LOF, no matter if combined with Holomask or not, but that's a discussion for the rules section.
    The strat you mention does work with Bashis/Yasbir anyway since they have both Holoprojector and Holomask.
    By turning on Holomask you can actually decide if you want your Holoechoes to Markers or Models and manipulate if they're block LOF or not as you see fit.
     
  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Plenty of proof here that Infinity is still a very tricky game with similar-but-uneven rules, even after the N4 "simplification." :)


    I always, always forget this one, and it's so simple and universal to use. Thanks for the reminder.
     
  12. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Maybe It wasn't the same back un N3, a los of players still do that mistake. Probably I did too in early N4.

    A bout holos they are consideres like real troopers...

    «Holoechoes are considered real Troopers in regard to providing AROs, checking LoF, and activating Enemy weapons or pieces of Equipment (Mines, CrazyKoalas, etc.). Each Reactive Trooper must choose only one of the Holoechoes activated by the Order as their target, but they are not obliged to choose the same target.»

    :)
     
  13. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Use a TAG to block enemy AROs so that your smaller troops can move freely behind it.
     
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  14. BoxedSnake

    BoxedSnake Well-Known Member

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    Very useful to block LoF to objectives and let your specialist do their work
     
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  15. HeadChime

    HeadChime Well-Known Member
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    Three tricks I use semi-often:

    1. Dodge markers to reveal them before you take on a target that you don't want to give a delay ARO to. Say a Fiday walks up to an enemy that you really want to kill. If you're a marker they can delay. If you've dodged previously then you'll be revealed and they can't delay. Why would you do this? On the one hand it makes you more vulnerable, on the other it means the enemy gets a worse ARO. If they shoot you, you can shotgun template them, if they dodge then you can walk into CC, or just shoot them with a blast. Sometimes it's better to reveal on purpose so the enemy cannot delay.
    2. Deploy mines and then abuse pre-emptive declarations to force bad AROs. So, for example, an enemy is standing around a corner from a Fiday. A Fiday places a mine around the corner without being seen, so that it'll trigger on the enemy with the next order. Traditionally it's usual for the Fiday to then walk around the corner and shoot the enemy, to make the mine go off. Don't do this. Declare a shoot from around the corner BEFORE you move. Now the enemy is forced to ARO. If they declare a chain rifle that could kill your Fiday then just don't walk around the corner with your second skill. The mine goes off and auto-hits them, and you don't risk your Fiday. If the enemy declares a dodge then you can safely move out and shoot. If the enemy shoots with something else then you're free to choose whether you walk out and risk the face-to-face (+ the mine goes off), or whether you want to stay safe. You can use this to make templates basically useless vs Fidays with mines.
    3. Pair a hacker + a repeater in a duo to make active hacking much easier. A duo fireteam with a hacker and repeater can roll around the board together, combining their powers to make hacking more effective. In the active turn you can move the repeater up to the opponent you want to hack, and not the main hacker. Now if the opponent wants to hack back they take a firewall mod. This basically means your hacker is at a permanent -3 to be hacked back in the active turn (if you keep using the friendly repeater in the duo to facilitate all the hacking). In the reactive turn you can space them out to guarantee a 24" bubble of hacking (8" on left of hacker, 8" between hacker and repeater troop in duo, 8" to the right of repeater troop). A mukhtar + rafiq can do this.
     
  16. HeadChime

    HeadChime Well-Known Member
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    Oh another one:

    1. Stack surprise AROs to seriously threaten hard targets. The most effective way to cause an opponent to fluff a roll, even with a powerful troop is simply to lower its burst. You can do this if you present multiple AROs at once. But of course the active player can slice the pie so they never have to face multiple AROs simultaneously. So what do you do? Place a hidden deployed ARO next to / on top of an actual ARO. For example a Nadhir next to a Daylami. When the opposing model moves out to take on the Daylami they get surprised by the second ARO. Now they have to either split burst or take a nasty unopposed shot. Either way, you dramatically lower their success chances.
    Clarification edit: when I said stack, I didn't mean to suggest that you can literally put them on top of each other. Though the ensuing discussion may have decided you can do this.
     
    #16 HeadChime, Jul 9, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
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  17. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Oh man, that's gold. I hadn't thought of that. Fidays hate templates, this is perfect.

    Ooh, if you place it directly on top, you can even ensure you get the double ARO no matter which side the enemy approaches from. Deploy the hidden Nadhir in the literal same spot as the Daylami, so that anything that gives the Daylami an ARO must also give the Nadhir an ARO. When the Nadhir reveals, it can choose which side of the Daylami to appear on.
     
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  18. HeadChime

    HeadChime Well-Known Member
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    Oooh that's a bit gross. I hadn't thought of literally putting them on top of each other and abusing that. I guess you could, yeah?
    I thought about stacking them vertically etc.
     
  19. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    It's worth noting that pre-emptive declaration shenanigans are a 'consult your TO/opponent before use' situation. Pretty much universally across Australia (to my knowledge, and certainly locally and in most east coast locations I've played folks from) the accepted convention is that you cannot declare skill as being performed at a future, speculative location (i.e. a point the trooper has not reached yet during the order).

    This is because;
    a) it's locally considered pretty suspect about whether the rules even support future speculative locations when specifying the details of a skill (although of course this may vary from locale to locale);
    b) it avoids arguments about whether the active trooper actually reached that point, exactly; and
    c) future speculative location shenanigans have universally failed the 'explain this to a new player without them looking at you like you betrayed them when you gave them a demo game' test.
     
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  20. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    This is a really interesting one. You'd have to deploy the conjoined Nadhalymi in a location where there's a model's worth of free space to both the left and right of them so you can shift the Nadhir to either point while meeting the 'as close as possible' requirement, but with that caveat, this is potentially very interesting.

    I wonder what happens if you do it with two Nadhir in Hassassins*? You probably risk having to materialise one outside LOF of the target if they're pie slicing just so.


    Edit: As a bit of a note on legality of the tactic, the deployment rules state:
    • Unless previously agreed upon, Troopers cannot deploy in a location without enough space to fit their entire base.
    This is obviously primarily in reference to terrain, but it's also the only rule I can find that prevents you from deploying models stacked on top of one another anyway (although it wasn't a robust search) with the rules otherwise only requiring you not to end movement overlapping other models. If we take this as also meaning that troopers can't deploy inside one other**, it probably covers hidden deployment as well.




    (*...or three noctifiers in SEF. Nobody tell the combined army players about this.)

    (** waggles eyebrows suggestively)
     
    #20 RobertShepherd, Jul 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
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