E/M grenade vs shooting

It's a face to face, as both troopers are affecting each other.



Eating a E/M Grenade regardless of the troop type will end up with them Isolated as per its ammo rules:

 

Yes it does affect the outcome. It's F2F. The same way shooting a flash pulse at someone who is Immunity(Total) is F2F even though they take no effect if they lose because you are opposing each other.

 

That sentence refers to skills where the targets are not trying to affect each other, such as the Active Trooper using Doctor while being fired upon.

Any time two troopers are trying to affect each other it's a F2F roll to see who is successful. The E/M will affect the outcome of the BS Attack because if it is successful it may cancel the opponent's BS Attack. Same goes for BS Attack vs Hacking, or CC Attack with a Para CCW vs BS Attack.

 

Yes. It is still a Face to Face The E/M grenade is a BS attack so it is a BS Attack versus a BS Attack (See the Wiki https://infinitythewiki.com/Rolls)

Note: "For actions to be resolved with a Face to Face Roll, both Troopers must affect each other directly. If either action does not affect the outcome of the other, use Normal Rolls instead."

Being hit by an E/M attack as a LI or MI still will make the trooper be placed in the Isolated state. It also explicitly has to make a Guts roll. (https://infinitythewiki.com/Electromagnetic_(E/M)_Ammunition)

So A trooper will be affected. Even if the LI or MI was Veteran (https://infinitythewiki.com/Veteran), it is explicitly stated in the rules under E/m that a saving roll and Guts must be made.

 

As far as I know ammo type is pretty irrelevant here. The grenade has an effect on the target, its a face to face roll.

No idea where this is coming from
"e/m does not affect the outcome of BS attack".

 

It's not circular, it's two sequential statements.

If they affect each other, it is a F2F (and therefore by definition the attacks will affect the outcome of each other.)

If the skills will not affect the outcomes of each other (because they are not a F2F) they will be normal rolls.

 

I suspect your opponent in your local community will end up saying that a bs attack against another bs attack is not face to face roll, because the bullets from the shot of troop A, unless they collide in the air, do not affect the bullets of troop B ¬¬

For it to be FtF Roll, A has to be doing either something that targets B, or something that affects (in resolution) B; and at the same time, B has to be doing either something that targets A, or something that affects (in resolution) A.

If one of the two does something that neither targets nor affects the other, they will be independent rolls.
For example, A tries to press a button on an antenna and B tries to put a bullet in A's head. Whether B succeeds greatly affects A (being dead prevents A from pressing buttons, among many other things it won't do either), but since A isn't actively doing anything against B, they can both succeed.


It may or may not make sense in the real world, but at the game level it boils down to:

If we are both trying to affect each other, only one of us can succeed (FtF).
If one of us is not trying to affect the other, we can both succeed (non FtF).​

 

I think it's the common idea that the ammunition or skill has to put the opponent into a state that would prevent that opponent from being able to declare the skill that you are using. This makes sense in a real life analogy sort of way, of course, and if we ignore fear responses and similar issues, but it isn't supported by the rules and you'd have to ask what'd happen when the unit has enough wounds that the damage dealt is completely incapable of reducing combat capacity at all.

@Qwerinaga , you've probably settled this by now, but here's a shortcut found in the official FAQ document. It doesn't directly answer the question, but it does answer a related question in a way that would forestall the logic of the one your opponent asked:

Can a Non-Lethal Attack against a target with
Immunity (Total) be a Face to Face Roll? For
example if using a Flash Pulse against a Dog
Warrior.
Yes. It is a Face to Face Roll - Immunity (Total)
doesn't take effect until you've been hit, which is
after you've made the Face to Face Roll.

 

Wait until they try to shoot a hacker, who uses a program on them. :D

 

What skill do you use to shot a Combi Rifle? BS Attack.
What skill do you use to throw an E/M Grenade? BS Attack.

Why the hell should this not be a FtF Roll?

 

Face to Face rolls
When two or more Troopers act at the same time to try to thwart each other's progress, Face to Face Rolls are used to determine which side acts faster and more effectively.

Targetless
This weapon utilizes a Special Ammunition capable of firing without designating an enemy as a target.

 

Yeah, the wording of the Face to Face rule isn't great. The part of the rule that has effect is "For actions to be resolved with a Face to Face Roll, both Troopers must affect each other directly." That's the line that actually determines whether a F2F happens (along with the specific rules in Dodge and Reset which make them F2F even though they don't affect the other trooper).

The second line, "If either action does not affect the outcome of the other, use Normal Rolls instead," is so circular is to be meaningless. An action affects the outcome of another action if they're rolled F2F, and they're rolled F2F if they affect either other's outcomes. Not helpful.

Pitcher vs. gunshot isn't F2F, because the Pitcher doesn't affect the other trooper. It doesn't in fact target the active trooper. The general rule that "AROs must choose one of the Troopers activated by the Order as their target." is superseded by the specific rule that a Targetless weapon "utilizes a Special Ammunition capable of firing without designating an enemy as a target."

The interplay between the Targetless trait and AROs is actually particularly badly written, to the point that it previously had to be fixed by a sort of handwavy ruling by @ijw , then a subsequent FAQ invalidated his ruling without fixing the rule, but we all still play on the assumption that his ruling would still be the same if he were still around to make rulings, because the alternative would break the game: Smoke grenade ZoC ARO? | Corvus Belli Community Forum

 

Don't worry, we're all in the same boat in this regard.