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Sectorials vs. Vanilla

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by burlesford, Apr 23, 2022.

  1. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Yes, the casual player base that whines over mixed fireteams being “OP”, while having no knowledge on what is actually powerful far outweighs those who do.


    It’s not about powerlevels, it’s about them not being able to design their game properly.

    It’s more and more apparent that N4 is an embarrassing beta stage game to be honest.
    Nothing so far has really improved except for a meta change with worse balance.
     
    emperorsaistone, AmPm and nazroth like this.
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I can't really argue with that, so much more care should've been taken for a larger amount of sectorials during this transition.
     
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  3. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    Let's agree to disagree. I enjoy the current state of the game much more than I ever enjoyed it.
    N4 rules ans FT changes all went in the good direction.

    Played my Military Order usual teuton link and buleterre engineer hacker Haris at an event this WE and it was super fun every game.
     
    #23 Marduck, Jun 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Funny, had the same train of thought this morning.

    N4 made the game a lot deadlier while gutting a defense options without replacement.
    Flat out powercreep across the board where it wasn't needed, while abandoning weaker troops like run of the mill MI.
    Fireteam Update gutted already weak options that relied on linkability with full boni to be viable, while at the same time making stuff like Riot Grrrl Links even better than they already were and doing nothing to address the actual problems with Fireteams (footprint, too many eggs in one basket when playing active cores, basic "pure" HI Haris vs TAG pricepoint/incentive)

    Every time I look at my Tohaa I wonder how something that well oiled and diverse can exist next to a Sectorial like Sval, JSA, Druze or MO.
    They clearly can fix stuff if they feel like it, Morats have been horrible since forever and finally work.
    Is it a problem with motivation or a problem with their game design team not caring about balancing?
     
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  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I'm fairly sure the issue is that they don't look at stuff that's not in active rotation beyond a glance at best.

    That and the player base they use to test rules is to be frank, not very good at the game based on what forum members have said after interacting with them:

    That was in regard to the N3 Hulang.
     
    #25 Triumph, Jun 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  6. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    When discussing game balance, it's better to look at the great picture rather than just considering personnal limited scope. Claiming the game is intrinsically unbalanced makes little sense here, as it depends a lot on point of view, way of playing, meta, etc...
    My playgroup(s) and I, for example, are also enjoying it as it is, more than ever! To us, N4 feels like a nicely refined N3, with only few important issues left. Sure, there are of course always things that could be improved but Infinity is a complex game with in addition a gazillion different factions/profiles. That's surely not an easy thing to do...
     
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  7. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    The more I play and the more I read battle reports and the more I talk to other players, the more I feel like N4 has hit more than it has missed.

    I do think hacking is too simple, and I dislike the whole thing about how Spotlight works, but overall I think N4 is an improvement.

    This is a point I'm inclined to agree. I've discussed in other threads about how they seem to focus on each faction one at a time, and sometimes one faction ends up looking like it's gotten more focus than others. It should be noted that the game has more than 35 factions, though.

    So CB might just have a game bigger than they can actually develop in their hands.

    That being said, I think Infinity game balance is pretty good. Even the bad stuff is generally not as bad as other games have it.
     
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  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    While not an entirely unfair comment, I think it is fair to set an expectation of anything leaving rotation should be shored up to an acceptably solid playing state to tide it over while it waits its turn, which can be an extended period from what we've seen.

    The practice of doing things like leaving Shas "legal but rotting", the damage just inflicted on MRRF, or the complete inattention to USARF needs to stop and I don't think it's an unfair demand to place on CB.
     
    #28 Triumph, Jun 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  9. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Well, I can't really debate or argue against subjective opinions.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks Triumph, I haven't seen that thread.
    Gave me a good chuckle.
     
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  10. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    100% with you here mate.

    I think it's part of the company growing pains. I trust CB to learn from their mistakes and so far I have been usually positively surprised the way they've been handling things. There's room for improvement, but I feel they are on a positive path.
     
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  11. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    That's precisely the point DaRedOne makes. There are dozens of factions, played using a complex system, it's a titanic task to get everyone on the same level, at everytime.
    So what are the solutions? Deleting factions? Of course not. Hiring? Yeah, but it has a cost CB maybe can't support.

    Basically all this topic is about subjective opinions. Including your "N4 is an embarrassing beta stage game to be honest."
     
  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    @Child9

    You're confusing things here my dude.

    I can make statements and back them up. That's how you argue whether or not a game is bad or not.

    However, if someone says they enjoy a colour, then there's nothing to discuss.

    So no, you're wrong.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You don't need to do them all at the same time, large scale changes should be applied as a sectorial is rotated to out of production so they have a good chance of remaining viable until their return date rather than the current practice of taking a dump on MRRF, cancelling them, and shouting "LOL go buy Kosmo, idiots."
     
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  14. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I can't really debate or argue against subjective opinions.

    I don't disagree. My point stands, still.
    Even without "not doing all at the same time", that's a crazy amount of work, that would need to be done constantly... And dealing with rules is only a part of running a miniature business...
     
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  15. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    While I agree that MRRF needs work and USARF is in an interesting place, what is wrong with Shas?
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't think it's alot of work. We have a huge amount of data on stuff that doesn't work and things that need fixing for aged sectorials, courtesy of them having been played to death for ages.

    Even newer units don't take long or much work to fix, take a look at So-Ra and Jujaks. She was pointless crap when she released as were Jujaks, everyone complained she and Jujaks needed better fireteam options to be useful.

    Fireteam update comes along with better fireteam options for So-Ra and Jujaks and suddenly both are playable. Almost like people predicted they would after having a major problem resolved....

    This isn't a huge amount of work when the community has already done the majority of the leg work and CB just needs to check boxes and run final tests if necessary. Not to mention if they do happen to fuck something up we're using a living rules system it can be quickly adjusted without issue.

    Old Shas, not current Shas. When they got more or less mothballed during N3 remember?
     
    #36 Triumph, Jun 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  17. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Fair enough, enjoy being wrong.
     
  18. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    I'll continue to enjoy that nice N4 instead! :)
     
  19. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    I agree that being mothballed stinks, it feels like the glow up that Shas and Morats got was worth it. I do hope they get to QK and MRRF some day.
     
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  20. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Go do that bud.

    [​IMG]
     
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