One million percent seconded. You should be able to fall your first movement value as part of super jump. Instantly turns a worthless skill back into a useful one.
Given how low the cost of Superjump seems to be, the actual version of the skill feels more than right.
disagree. Most of the times is about 3 inches to getdown from low building. You can move down from it and move further, or even jump all 8 inches (or more) if it is safe. Comapre that to not having the skill - you waste entire order to get down, and that is IF you are already on the edge. Even comparing to Climb+, you may get further in this situation. Secondly. Jump up and down. 4 inches basic MOV gives 2 inches up and down. Your highest point od silhuette is at about 9cm above ground. Example of building, and very popular one: https://shop.microartstudio.com/pl/do-infinity/1718-district-5-l-apartment-prepainted-blue.html 8cm tall - you can shoot on top of it while jumping. And there are bigger units, with move MOV: Seraph 70mm tall, jumps 75mm up and down: 145mm to the top - very high. Cameronian S6 55mm+75mm = 130mm to the hiughest point. Sure - you wont jump onto the structure this way, but you will shoot to a unit there. What exaclty do you want from super-jump? To be able to jump over tallest buildings? Superjump even further? Jump down from any structure?
So increase the points cost of it. I'd rather pay more points for a reliably useful skill than having a fucking worthless one that has almost as little value as N3 rules like Defensive Hacking Devices or +1CC on CC trash units.
Well super-jump was more like kind-of-okay-jump in N3 anyway, aside from shooting at the top of model's back LoF arc which got fixed eventually, so I'm all for letting super-jump models to fall, either up to 8" which will work nicely with the ZoC premeasurement, or maybe at least up to MOV of the model. Oh, and please please PLEASE make it work same as Climbing+ so that models with super-jump treat Jump as a Move and can actually use their skill in mixed firteams and coordinated orders, otherwise Climb+ is strictly better in like 99% of cases, and as of now it really only works okay-ish on S2 models with 6-2/6-4 MOV
Climbing Plus converts a Climb (Long skill) in a Move (short skill) because Climb is a Move on a vertical surface. You are proposing to grant any model with SuperJump with possibly "MOV" extra movement every turn.
I've stated this before in the Rules Suggestions thread on this topic, but I think the solution to balancing super-jump should have been removing the ability to declare attacks from locations that are mid-jump and keep the mobility of allowing falls.
I think the problem with Jump is a lot more about how difficult it is to measure at all more so than the distance combined with how there's nothing in the rules that allows you to clip through terrain. Here's my line of thinking: * When Jumping, a Jump is considered correct as long as you can measure at least one uninterrupted trajectory from the same reference point inside a trooper's silhouette at both the original where at least half the silhouette fits throughout the trajectory. That's my take on the least difficult way of making the measurement. It's secretly basically what people already measure when they Jump (which is to say, stick down a straight ruler from somewhere on the base and tap the table with the far extreme of the jump without considering that the trooper will be phasing through a lot of scenery on the way to get there) and it adds quite a lot of leeway from clearing obstacles. Allowing Super-Jump troopers to fall wouldn't address the core issue where regular Jump is still defunct, nor the fact that the basic Jumping rules eat so much of the jumping movement that it might still not be enough to let Super-Jump be useful beyond pop-up shooting
That slogan tends to have the opposite effect of what is desired. Maybe try: ¡Sí se puede (vuelve a hacer grande el supersalto)! …it translates a lot better ;)
I am amazed at the amount of political slogans (and the research I have to do to understand them), for a request in rules change... please stop... In any case this is not the subforum for it I move it to suggestions.
For Super Jump I'd prefer if it operated akin to C+. In that it's able to work concurrent with other movement of a team. I.E enabling a Karhu climbing one surface, a Varg super jumping up to another and an ORC walking along the ground level.
I want to jump onto, across, and off roofs like we are playing Quake or TF2. As for 3 inches to be enough to get off short buildings, it depends on what you define as a short building. 3 inches only gets you off a 2 inch tall building with no railing to jump over (1 inch horizontal for an S2 base to fit on the ground, then 2 inches vertical to move up or down). If there is half inch tall railing you would need to go up and back down a greater distance, so increase that to 4 inches, plus the thickness of the railing being 0.25 or 0.5 inches. Suddenly you can't make it onto a short building with the standard 4 inches depending on the terrain manufacturer. Back when Khawarij were only 4-4 I used to have to pre-measure buildings when I got to a table, because I have had opponents catch me not being able to legally super jump because to get over the edge and railing of a building it would take 4.2 inches of movement. It gets more annoying as base size increases too, such as with a Seraph. My personal solution would be 1 inch of free fall distance or have a vault to ignore railings as part of the skill.
The Microart building you linked displays my point. It's 3.1 inches tall to the top of the railing, making a short action super jump on a Vargr or Rodok not making it onto the roof. 3.1 inches up, 1.1 inches over to get your base fully on and compensate for railing thickness, then 0.25 back down to reach the floor for railing height. You would need a jump distance of 4.4 or 4.5 inches to make the jump.
A couple thoughts that might make it more useful: 1) allow you to "vault" over parapets and railings so that the jump is from the surface of the roof to the surface you are jumping to, not having to arc up and over the rail. 2) Allow you to fall the silhouette height straight down - so you have to clear the rail, but can drop your height to the ground. Both of these would be easy to implement, and I think address the vast majority of the issues we see with N4 super jump.
